• It has come to our attention that some users may have been "banned" when they tried to change their passwords after the site was hacked due to a glitch in the old vBulletin software. This would have occurred around the end of February and does not apply after the site was converted to Xenforo. If you believe you were affected by this, please contact a staff member or use the Contact us link at the bottom of any forum page.

Sheila Cloney (Fethard-on-sea case mother) dies!!!


spidermom

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 13, 2008
Messages
9,189
Last edited by a moderator:

parakeet

Member
Joined
Jul 24, 2007
Messages
82
A woman who was driven to flee this country, because of the evil Catholic bigotry and intolerance, which was then all pervasive.
 

lapsedmethodist

Active member
Joined
Jun 15, 2008
Messages
143
Nice bit in the article about the support he received from the old IRA " who had fallen out with the clergy "
What a difference from the ethnic cleansers who operated along the border in the '80's.
 

parakeet

Member
Joined
Jul 24, 2007
Messages
82
Nice bit in the article about the support he received from the old IRA " who had fallen out with the clergy "
What a difference from the ethnic cleansers who operated along the border in the '80's.
Indeed, some of the people from the Old IRA were honourable decent people, particularly those who wanted a different Ireland from what we got, and not just the same order, but with a homegrown elite.
 

Seán Mac Stiofán

Active member
Joined
Jul 5, 2006
Messages
164
What a load of rubbish -- revisionism

:?

In May 1957, Fethard-on-Sea found itself embroiled in controversy related to the ''Ne Temere'' decree. A local Catholic curate Father Stafford and some of the parishioners started a sectarian boycott of Protestant-owned local businesses, claiming others in the Protestant community were complicit in the kidnapping of Catholic schoolchildren by their mother (Tom Kelly did in fact supply her with the necessary funds to travel North), and vowing to sustain the campaign until the children were returned; a Protestant music teacher lost 12 of her 13 pupils, and the Catholic teacher of the local Protestant school was forced to resign. The boycott was in response to the actions of a Protestant woman, Sheila Kelly Cloney. Mrs. Cloney had left both her Catholic husband and the village, taking her two daughters, rather than sending them to the local National (Catholic) School, as was the wish of the father.

Seán Michael Cloney was himself an early victim of the Boycott Committee, due to non-compliance.

The kidnapping was condemned by the local Church of Ireland rector, Rev ACP Fisher and Bishop McPhair. The boycott received national and international coverage through the summer, Remarks by Professor Brian Farrell at the Launch of the Parliamentary Archive on the Internet on 5 July 2001 before ending that autumn, following a reconcilliation mediated in Dublin through Mrs. Cloney's father, Tom Kelly and parties acting on behalf of Mr. Cloney.http://www.ucd.ie/archives/html/collections/fisher-rev.htm] A movie, ''A Love Divided'' (1999) was made about the Cloney family, starring Irish actress Orla Brady as Sheila Cloney. Certain scenes, such as those of the burning of Tom Kelly's (Sheila Kelly Cloney's Protestant father) farm and of violence involving firearms were fabrications and historical misrepresentation, [url=http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4161/is_19991205/ai_n14497602]according to Eileen Kehoe, one of the couple's daughters .
Eileen Kehoe said:
"The country's response to the film has been overwhelming. My father was pleased to see it before he died,"

"He did make some public comment about where the film had misrepresented some historical points such as the burning of my grandfather Tom Kelly's farm and the physical violence involving sticks and guns. These events did not happen."

"After the boycott when we returned to Fethard not a word was said about it,"

"Everyone smiled at each other and were as courteous as ever.
Also, the film depicted the active support of the local Bishop Dr James Staunton, for the boycott. Dr. Staunton declined to condemn it but never gave his assent to the boycott (as demonstrated in the film). However, preaching to a congregation in Wexford that included John Cardinal D’Alton and six other bishops, Bishop Michael Browne of Galway endorsed the sectarian boycott. He described it as “a peaceful and moderate protest” in response to what “seems to be a concerted campaign to entice or kidnap Catholic children and deprive them of their faith”.

Sheila Cloney took the children with her to Belfast and made contact with her husband through the means of a solicitor, as depicted in the film. In the film, an aggressive Mr. Cloney (played by actor Liam Cunnigham) immediately rejects any overtures or compromises. The solicitor (Desmond Boal) suggested a reconciliation was possible, provided Seán Cloney accept her terms, never revealed in the film. They were, that her husband sell the farm and emigrate (with herself and the children) to Australia or Canada The Mayo News - Fethard boycott recalled and that '''he accept that the children be raised as Protestants''' Fethardism - TIME. He refused.

Desmond Boal, who later co-founded the Democratic Unionist Party with Ian Paisley, took up Sheila Cloney’s case.

Mrs. Cloney received support from none other than Rev. Ian K. Paisley.

Contrary to what was depicted in the motion picture, the Catholic school teacher employed by the Protestants was not ordered out of the school by her (Catholic) Parish Priest: she herself was the subject of a boycott by the local Protestant parents of pupils National archives Finding aid: Women in 20th-Century Ireland, 1922-1966: Sources from the Department of the Taoiseach (Browse records).

One of the movie's writers, Gerry Gregg, was an ardent Communist and former member of The Workers Party of Ireland, noted for his antagonism towards the Catholic Church and Irish Republicanism.

Citations
(1) from article "Love Conquers All" Sunday Mirror, 5 December 1999 by Amanda Dioherty
Sean Cloney, who remained a devout Catholic but stern critic of the Church's hierarchy, died last month from pneumonia. But his daughter, Eileen Kehoe, revealed that he was delighted to see the film screened before he died.

"The country's response to the film has been overwhelming. My father was pleased to see it before he died," she said. "He did make some public comment about where the film had misrepresented some historical points such as the burning of my grandfather Tom Kelly's farm and the physical violence involving sticks and guns. These events did not happen."

Eileen returned to the town with her parents and sister Mary when the boycott ended. She lives in a comfortable bungalow across the road from the farm where she grew up. Her husband Bill Kehoe, a world champion tug of war team member, runs the 125-acre Cloney farm.

"After the boycott when we returned to Fethard not a word was said about it," she said. "Everyone smiled at each other and were as courteous as ever.

(2) from (UK) Independent, 22 October 1999 by Alan Murdoch

Catholic clergy in the south-east backed the boycott; Dr James Staunton, the hardline local bishop, declined to criticise it.
As national and international press highlighted the controversy, it was seized on by a young Northern Ireland Presbyterian, Ian Paisley [!!], for whom it confirmed his prejudices about the fate of Protestantism in a wider Catholic society. Irish Catholics further afield did not generally support the boycott. The Taoiseach, Eamon de Valera, a devout Catholic and instigator of the Constitution, called the boycott "ill-conceived, ill-considered, and futile" in July 1957. His words fell on deaf ears.

(3) from The Mayo News, 23 May 2007, "Fethard Boycott Recalled" by Fr Kevin Hegarty

In late April Sheila left home, without informing her husband, and went to Belfast with the two girls. Some days later a Belfast barrister, Desmond Toal, went to Fethard-on-Sea to inform Se?n Cloney of the whereabouts of his wife and children. He also told him she was prepared to return to him only if he sold the farm and emigrated. Se?n refused and began legal proceedings for the return of his children.

(4) from Time Magazine 19 August 1957

One day last April, while Sean worked in his fields, Sheila bundled their two children into the car and drove off. Later, a Belfast barrister turned up at Dungulph Castle with Sheila's terms for coming back: Cloney must sell the farm, move to Canada or Australia, agree to let the children be raised as Protestants. Cloney got a conditional order for a writ of habeas corpus for his children's return, and waited.

(5) Extract from National Archives, Record 18441 from Department of the Taoiseach
Description:
Newsclipping from the 'Irish Times', 27 May 1957, containing an article entitled 'Village boycott of school and shops'. The article relates to the boycotting by Catholics of Protestant shops in Fethard-on-Sea, County Wexford. Their actions resulted from a domestic dispute between Sheila Cloney, a Protestant, and her husband, Sean Cloney, a Catholic. 'The terms of settlement included his agreement that the two children be brought up in the Protestant faith, and that he consider changing his own religion'. The article states that a Protestant boycott of the local school's Catholic teacher was initiated in response to the action of the Catholic community. The concluding paragraph of the article outlines local opinion. 'A Catholic trader said he believed that if the children were not returned to their father the boycott might spread all over the diocese'.
 
Last edited:

Seán Mac Stiofán

Active member
Joined
Jul 5, 2006
Messages
164
Ohhhh

I thought I would finish with this from the RTE website:

Mrs Cloney, a Protestant, was not prepared to accept the consequences of the promise made by Seán prior to their marriage.

She removed their children from the jurisdiction rather than send them to the Catholic school.

The issue led to what was known as the 'Fethard Boycott' and later became the subject of a film, 'A Love Divided'.


'Remove', eh? Another euphemism for 'kidnap'. Interesting that this woman has been completely rehabilitated and lionized by the liberal left here in Ireland. Suppose I had a dispute with my wife over (?) our children education, I suppose people would fully appreciate (and support) my decision to leave with out children in the dead of night. It makes me a hero, actually.
 

lapsedmethodist

Active member
Joined
Jun 15, 2008
Messages
143
I thought I would finish with this from the RTE website:

Mrs Cloney, a Protestant, was not prepared to accept the consequences of the promise made by Seán prior to their marriage.

She removed their children from the jurisdiction rather than send them to the Catholic school.

The issue led to what was known as the 'Fethard Boycott' and later became the subject of a film, 'A Love Divided'.


'Remove', eh? Another euphemism for 'kidnap'. Interesting that this woman has been completely rehabilitated and lionized by the liberal left here in Ireland. Suppose I had a dispute with my wife over (?) our children education, I suppose people would fully appreciate (and support) my decision to leave with out children in the dead of night. It makes me a hero, actually.
How do you kidnap your own children when they are not the subject of a court order!
 

Andrew49

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 2, 2008
Messages
6,046
Twitter
AndrewSB49
Woman at centre of infamous Fethard-on-Sea boycott dies - The Irish Times - Tue, Jun 30, 2009


Some may know the story!

I hope many do!

A brave and principled lady who had to bear the most enormous pressure to do what she thought was right by her children!


RIP

Dáil Éireann - Volume 163 - 04 July, 1957
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Fethard-on-Sea Boycott.


Dr. Browne
asked the Taoiseach if he has received from, or on behalf of, any residents at Fethard-on-Sea representations respecting the boycott of a section of the population there, and if, in view of the grave and growing disquiet throughout Ireland, he proposes to make a statement in regard to the matter.

Parliamentary Secretary to the Taoiseach (Donnchadh Ó Briain) (thar ceann an Taoisigh)
: Certain representations have been made to me.

I have made no public statement because I have clung to the hope that good sense and decent neighbourly feeling would, of themselves, bring this business to an end. I cannot say that I know every fact, but if, as Head of the Government, I must speak, I can only say, from what has appeared in public, that I regard this boycott as ill-conceived, ill considered and futile for the achievement of the purpose for which it seems to have been intended; that I regard it as unjust and cruel to confound the innocent with the guilty; that I repudiate any suggestion that this boycott is typical of the attitude or conduct of our people; that I am convinced that 90 per cent. of them look on this matter as I do; and that I beg of all who have regard for the fair name, good repute and well-being of our nation to use their influence to bring this deplorable affair to a speedy end.

I would like to appeal also to any who might have influence with the absent wife to urge on her to respect her troth and her promise and to return with her children to her husband and her home.

Mr. Corish:
What steps has the Taoiseach taken to find out whether or not there is, in fact, a boycott? Will the Taoiseach endeavour to ensure that certain people will not conspire in this part of the country to kidnap Catholic children?

The Taoiseach Eamon de Valera
: I do not think I should add to the considered statement I have made. I am not accepting the statements of the Deputy.

Deputies
: Hear, hear!
 

reknaw

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 3, 2009
Messages
3,867
I remember this case. The papers were full of it at the time and most of the reporting was from the slant of the Catholic orthodoxy then virtually unchallenged in Ireland.

It was a time when a bossy, bigoted priest interfered in a family's internal affairs in a way that would immediately get him told to feck off with himself today. It was in the Diocese of Ferns, where investigative journalists would have found much bigger and horrifying stories to report - or cover up as they almost certainly would have done in the spirit of the times. Ferns was a centre of kiddly-fiddling - big time!

Then, from the frying pan into the fire, the mother accepted the help of a group of dingbat religious fundamentalists of a different brand, with a certain Ian Paisley (still only Mr, as he hadn't yet bought his $360 doctorate from Bob Jones University - motto "Kill a commie for Christ!") playing a prominent role in stirring the sh1t.

Whichever groups of opposing bigots you look at, the lesson you learn from both is the same: the sooner Ireland kicks the religion habit, the better!:eek::eek::eek:
 
Last edited:

Victor Meldrew

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 8, 2007
Messages
7,184
Recknaw's analysis is a touch short, but pretty much on target. I'd only add that this story encapsulates what a horrible, mean spirited dump Ireland was in the 50's thanks to Dev & McQuaid.

"Valley of the squinting Windows" by Brindsley McNamara covers the good old days pretty well too.
 

adamirer

Well-known member
Joined
May 16, 2007
Messages
454
Iconic Fethard-on-sea case mother, dies.

THE DEATH has taken place in Co Wexford of Sheila Cloney, the woman at the centre of the infamous 1957 Fethard-on-Sea boycott of Protestants. Ms Cloney, who was 83, died in hospital on Sunday.

Woman at centre of infamous Fethard-on-Sea boycott dies - The Irish Times - Tue, Jun 30, 2009

A member of the Church of Ireland, her decision 52 years ago to flee her Catholic husband and the State rather than allow her children to be educated at the local Catholic national school led to a boycott of Protestant businesses in the south Co Wexford village. The case attracted considerable national and international media attention with Time magazine coining the word “fethardism” which it claimed meant: “to practise boycott along religious lines”.

The dispute was eventually resolved when Ms Cloney was reconciled with her husband, returned to Ireland, and educated her daughters at home.

_________

The death of a brave and courageous woman has taken place. Ms Cloney stood up to the Catholic Church back in 1957, a few years after they battered down Noel Browne, and held onto the courage of her convictions. Her story was immortalised in the movie "a love divided".

May she rest in peace.
 

parakeet

Member
Joined
Jul 24, 2007
Messages
82
What happened here was a woman married a local man of a different faith. She happened to be from a minority faith. He from the majority.. His faith was bossy and believed that she should have no right to raise her children as part of hers, because the father was a part of theirs. She was told that she had to send them to the school advocating the faith of the father. She didn't want this. The local priest, an evil bully, told her it wasn't her choice. She fled in the night with her children to protect them from having to attend a Catholic school. She was vulnerable and scared and came into contact with some very dodgy characters whilst seeking refuge. At the end of the day, she and her husband resolved their differences and returned to live in Fethard. At the last moment, he stood up to his church and told it to go stuff itself. The local bishop may not have been supportive, but the hierarchy generally was. There was a concensus in the Ireland of the time that ne temere was ok, but one brave young mother cried no and she faced some heavy conseqeunces. She was a hero for that.
 

parakeet

Member
Joined
Jul 24, 2007
Messages
82
I might add that her faith community allowed the ne temere doctrine be imposed on them. The CoI behaved as though it was lucky to be allowed stay, when it had as much right to be here as the Catholic or any other church. It should have fought it, but it didn't. A woman of good Protestant faith realised that it was wrong and unfair to remove her rights, as per the raising of her children in matters of religion. The local Catholic community saw it as their right and the local CoI had its head in the sand. She had little choice but to run, if she wanted to protect her children.
 

Cato

Moderator
Joined
Aug 21, 2005
Messages
20,561
Whichever groups of opposing bigots you look at, the lesson you learn from both is the same: the sooner Ireland kicks the religion habit, the better!:eek::eek::eek:
'Twould seem like the obvious lesson to learn, all right.
 

Tiernanator

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 2, 2007
Messages
345
Nice bit in the article about the support he received from the old IRA " who had fallen out with the clergy "
What a difference from the ethnic cleansers who operated along the border in the '80's.
You can keep repeating a lie lapsedmethodist but it does not make it the truth. The so-called ethnic cleansing that you talk about was members of the RUC/UDR being killed by the IRA. I personally can see how this would have looked and felt to protestant people but it was not as you call it "ethnic cleansing". Your also wrong about it on another issue, many protestants are actually ethnically Irish and therefore your assuming that to be protestant you must be of planter stock. My protestant relatives would take great exception given their surnames are O'Neill, Doherty and Given. It would be interesting to see whether the farms and land actually changed hands from Protestant to Catholic at this time. I personally don't think it did, however I would be glad if you could substantiate your claims with real evidence and not quotes from Willie Frazer.
 

Tiernanator

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 2, 2007
Messages
345
Recknaw's analysis is a touch short, but pretty much on target. I'd only add that this story encapsulates what a horrible, mean spirited dump Ireland was in the 50's thanks to Dev & McQuaid.

"Valley of the squinting Windows" by Brindsley McNamara covers the good old days pretty well too.
You are so right Victor Meldrew. Gay people also left Ireland in droves for England and the US. We aren't a new invention and the church did make it hard for gays and lesbians. However on a positive note Brian Lacey mentioned an outreach project by The Legion of Mary to gay men in his book Terrible Queer Creatures so they weren't all hatefilled bigots. This lady did the right thing in not allowing a bigoted parish priest to force her to do something she wasn't happy with. However she did agree to rear her children as Catholics and that should have been enough for the priest.
 

Seán Mac Stiofán

Active member
Joined
Jul 5, 2006
Messages
164
How do you kidnap your own children when they are not the subject of a court order!
Well, the fact is that she did kidnap her children, inasmuch as a similar act would be considered kidnap today. Think Pakistani father brings children to Pakistan without mother's consent. It happens quite often today, as a matter of fact.

It was considered kidnap by her pastor and her Bishop at the time and her actions condemned by both of them.

I remember this case. The papers were full of it at the time and most of the reporting was from the slant of the Catholic orthodoxy then virtually unchallenged in Ireland.

It was a time when a bossy, bigoted priest interfered in a family's internal affairs in a way that would immediately get him told to feck off with himself today.
Probably. But the fact remains that it was the father's intention that his children be raised Catholic and the mother originally agreed to do same. She subsequently went back on her word (or perhaps never intended to honour their agreement in the first instance) and that was the origin of the dispute.

reknaw said:
Then, from the frying pan into the fire, the mother accepted the help of a group of dingbat religious fundamentalists of a different brand, with a certain Ian Paisley (still only Mr, as he hadn't yet bought his $360 doctorate from Bob Jones University - motto "Kill a commie for Christ!") playing a prominent role in stirring the sh1t.
Her solicitor was a founder of the D.U.P. and drafted her demands (see above, curiously absent from the film, A Love Divided.). Ian Paisley has a history of kidnapping Catholic Children too.

If you want a real case of a pogram, read about this: In a corner of Antrim another generation grows up on a diet of sectarian hatred | UK news | The Guardian

Recknaw's analysis is a touch short, but pretty much on target. I'd only add that this story encapsulates what a horrible, mean spirited dump Ireland was in the 50's thanks to Dev & McQuaid
What's wrong with you? Are you a complete retard? Did you read the reply De Valera gave in the Dáil with respect to the boycott? Where do you get this garbage opinion of yours from?

What happened here was a woman married a local man of a different faith. She happened to be from a minority faith. He from the majority.. His faith was bossy and believed that she should have no right to raise her children as part of hers, because the father was a part of theirs.
If one is a true believer in the faith one supposedly adheres to (I suspect you are not), then of course you would insist that your children adhere to your faith. There is no equality or sense of "fairness" in this matter. You either believe, in which one would presumably desire one's children to be brought up likewise, or not. Many Catholics married Protestants and raised the children Protestant. In this case, Sheila Cloney didn't obviously believe too strongly in her own faith and made a solemn promise to raise the children Catholic. She went back on her word.

Another weird point of yours: Seán Cloney's "faith" didn't that his children ought be raised Catholic, he decided this himself.

parakeet said:
She was told that she had to send them to the school advocating the faith of the father. She didn't want this. The local priest, an evil bully, told her it wasn't her choice.
It was always the father's intention to raise his children Catholic. He had rights too, you know.

parakeet said:
She fled in the night with her children to protect them from having to attend a Catholic school.
"Kidnap", we call it and so did her pastor.

parakeet said:
She was vulnerable and scared and came into contact with some very dodgy characters whilst seeking refuge.
She was given the finance to travel North by her father and others.

parakeet said:
There was a concensus in the Ireland of the time that ne temere was ok, but one brave young mother cried no and she faced some heavy conseqeunces. She was a hero for that.
Not really. In my opinion, if she had no intention to abide by the ne temere doctrine, then perhaps she should've married someone else?

I might add that her faith community allowed the ne temere doctrine be imposed on them. The CoI behaved as though it was lucky to be allowed stay, when it had as much right to be here as the Catholic or any other church. It should have fought it, but it didn't. A woman of good Protestant faith realised that it was wrong and unfair to remove her rights, as per the raising of her children in matters of religion. The local Catholic community saw it as their right and the local CoI had its head in the sand. She had little choice but to run, if she wanted to protect her children.
She chose to marry Seán Cloney and abide by raising her children Catholic. Many others chose differently. The difference is she kidnapped her children when she wasn't being suited.
 

oscartango

Active member
Joined
Mar 2, 2009
Messages
182
Let's be absolutely clear about this. The Catholic Church in Ireland would still be at this bullying if it thought there was any way at all that it could get away with it.

Now that it can't get its own way by bullying, threats and exerting pressure on politicians, it has to be more cunning and circumspect. But it is no less dangerous to the health of a modern day European democratic republic with liberal pretensions.
 

oscartango

Active member
Joined
Mar 2, 2009
Messages
182
And of course I entirely agree with lapsedmethodist about the Provos' ethnic cleansing. We have many Provo apologists now re-writing and revising the history of the NI troubles, but the fact remains that their "war" was a sectarian one. They pretty much ethnically cleansed the west bank of Derry, for instance, where there are now no Unionist elected representatives.
 
Top