Shocking Attitude to Irish People and Ignorance of Irish History Among Gammon

shiel

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They are only giving back the arrogance that was shown to them.

After all their democratic vote is being actively overturned, assisted enthusiastically by the Indian Blueshirt.

You can't blame them for feeling hard done by.
Feeling hard done by my arse.

The background to the Brexit debate is the following.

A century ago the UK governed nearly a quarter of the population of the globe.

Since then it has been on the winning side in two world wars, is a nuclear power and is a permanent member of the security council of the UN.

Thus as one of the most powerful and influential countries in the world it signed an agreement to cooperate with nearly thirty other European democracies in matters of mutual interest.

Through Brexit the UK has torn up that agreement and declared economic war on these democracies.


How can Brexiteers defend declaring economic war on democracies that were up until recently colonies of the Soviet Union and have relatively low standard of living?

The EU is the most advanced effort at international cooperation in the world in a continent which experienced centuries of imperial/totalitarian conflict.

Brexit is an effort to dismantle the EU.

Brexit is indefensible.
 
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RasherHash

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Feeling hard done by my arse.

The background to the Brexit debate is the following.

A century ago the UK governed nearly a quarter of the population of the globe.

Since then it has been on the winning side in two world wars, is a nuclear power and is a permanent member of the security council of the UN.

Thus as one of the most powerful and influential countries in the world it signed an agreement to cooperate with nearly thirty other European democracies in matters of mutual interest.

Through Brexit the UK has torn up that agreement and declared economic war on these democracies.


How can Brexiteers defend declaring economic war on democracies that were up until recently colonies of the Soviet Union and have relatively low standard of living?

That is the EU which is the most advanced effort at international cooperation in the world in a continent which experienced centuries of imperial/totalitarian conflict.
So are you saying the Brits (and we're talking about the people who believe they have no stake in the EU) have no right to leave this club?
 

shiel

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So are you saying the Brits (and we're talking about the people who believe they have no stake in the EU) have no right to leave this club?
They can leave the EU but declaring economic war on the other members of the EU and tearing up an international treaty, which is the Good Friday Agreement, thus re-imposing a hard border on this island is indefensible.
 

raetsel

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RasherHash

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They can leave the EU but declaring economic war on the other members of the EU and tearing up an international treaty, which is the Good Friday Agreement, thus re-imposing a hard border on this island is indefensible.
The Brits have said from the start they would not impose a hard border, it's the EU lickspittle Varadkar who is going to insist on a hard border.
 

shiel

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The Brits have said from the start they would not impose a hard border, it's the EU lickspittle Varadkar who is going to insist on a hard border.
Brexiteer declaration of economic war on the countries of the EU and tearing up the Good Friday Agreement results in a hard border.

Without Brexit the border would be as free as it has been since the signing of the Good Friday Agreement.

When Paddy states those facts he is told to shut his gob by the Brexiteer politicians and media in London.

For them nothing much has changed since colonial times.

For them Paddy is expected to know his place and grovel.
 

RasherHash

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Brexiteer declaration of economic war on the countries of the EU and tearing up the Good Friday Agreement results in a hard border.

Without Brexit the border would be as free as it has been since the signing of the Good Friday Agreement.

When Paddy states those facts he is told to shut his gob by the Brexiteer politicians and media in London.

For them nothing much has changed since colonial times.

For them Paddy is expected to know his place and grovel.
Why do you keep using the racist term 'Paddy' about the Irish?

Anyone in the club should be free to leave, if we are not free to leave then it's not a club built on equality...but tyranny.
 

shiel

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Why do you keep using the racist term 'Paddy' about the Irish?

Anyone in the club should be free to leave, if we are not free to leave then it's not a club built on equality...but tyranny.
It is the motivation and the conditions for leaving which are going to do a lot of damage to all concerned which are open to question.

Declaring economic war, tearing up the GFA and re-imposing the border in this island are fairly serious issues in terms of the future of Europe and these islands.

The Paddy aspect goes back a long way in London media.

Example is a great quote from the recent anti-EU London media;

“The Sun has some advice for Ireland’s naive young prime minister: shut your gob and grow up,”

That is an excellent example of the Brexiteer attitude to Paddy not knowing his place.
 

RasherHash

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It is the motivation and the conditions for leaving which are going to do a lot of damage to all concerned which are open to question.

Declaring economic war, tearing up the GFA and re-imposing the border in this island are fairly serious issues in terms of the future of Europe and these islands.

The Paddy aspect goes back a long way in London media.

Example is a great quote from the recent anti-EU London media;


“The Sun has some advice for Ireland’s naive young prime minister: shut your gob and grow up,”

That is an excellent example of the Brexiteer attitude to Paddy not knowing his place.
"The Paddy aspect...", that's not The Sun using a racist epithet, it's you using it, I'd ask you to stop using racist epithets like that, it is not right when they use it and it's not right when you use it.

The first thing is the right to leave the club, that comes before any negotiations or conditions. If they have the right to leave (and they should, otherwise it's tyranny) then they have to be able to express that democratically and that decision has to be RESPECTED.

That decision hasn't been respected...at all. In fact there has been a consistent attempt to overturn their democratic decision.

The negotiations from the EU have been carried out in an unforgiving, imperial and arrogant fashion. The EU want to overturn British democracy and they are not ashamed of this, they are arrogantly proud of it. Varadkar has been to the forefront in this attack on democracy and has proven himself to be a proud lickspitle of the imperium.
 

shiel

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"The Paddy aspect...", that's not The Sun using a racist epithet, it's you using it, I'd ask you to stop using racist epithets like that, it is not right when they use it and it's not right when you use it.

The first thing is the right to leave the club, that comes before any negotiations or conditions. If they have the right to leave (and they should, otherwise it's tyranny) then they have to be able to express that democratically and that decision has to be RESPECTED.

That decision hasn't been respected...at all. In fact there has been a consistent attempt to overturn their democratic decision.

The negotiations from the EU have been carried out in an unforgiving, imperial and arrogant fashion. The EU want to overturn British democracy and they are not ashamed of this, they are arrogantly proud of it. Varadkar has been to the forefront in this attack on democracy and has proven himself to be a proud lickspitle of the imperium.
The countries which are remaining in the EU are just negotiating with the UK. The UK cannot agree a majority on the agreement negotiated.

Thai is because it does not have a majority in parliament to pass the agreement because the wisdom of the decision is being challenged.

Blaming the EU for that is bunkum.

Anyway challenging the wisdom of a decision in a democracy is basic to democracy and is not an effort to 'overturn' a democracy.

Given the background history the Brexiteers' complaint about the EU negotiations is ironic.

Just 100 years ago or so what is presently the UK was an imperial power with colonial control over nearly a quarter of the population of the globe.


Not much negotiating went on there.

It has been recently one of nearly thirty European democracies that are members of the EU having signed a treaty to cooperate in matters of mutual interest.

Thirty years ago Eastern European countries that had been colonies of the Soviet Union became democracies.

They are now also included in the nearly thirty members of the EU having signed a treaty to cooperate in matters of mutual interest.

Now, however, Brexiteers in the UK have voted to tear up the treaty signed with nearly thirty other EU democracies representing nearly 500 million equal citizens.

Brexiteers, therefore, support a declaration of economic war on nearly 500 million equal fellow citizens in the EU including the equal citizens that were relatively recently ruled by the Soviet Union.

This has the effect of threatening the dismantling of the EU which is the most advanced effort at international cooperation in the world in a continent with a history of centuries of conflict.


It is no wonder the wisdom of the Brexit decision is being challenged.
 

RasherHash

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The countries which are remaining in the EU are just negotiating with the UK. The UK cannot agree a majority on the agreement negotiated.
Thai is because it does not have a majority in parliament to pass the agreement because the wisdom of the decision is being challenged.
Blaming the EU for that is bunkum.
I'm not 'blaming' them for that, I'm saying they should respect the democratic decision taken by the majority.

Anyway challenging the wisdom of a decision in a democracy is basic to democracy and is not an effort to 'overturn' a democracy.
Given the background history the Brexiteers' complaint about the EU negotiations is ironic.
Just 100 years ago or so what is presently the UK was an imperial power with colonial control over nearly a quarter of the population of the globe.
When a decision is taken by the majority it should be implemented, that is the basic idea in democracy, it's not best of three or can we change their minds because in our view they got it wrong.
What background history are you talking about?
What has ancient history to do with the failure of the British establishment to include the working class in their considerations?

Not much negotiating went on there.
That is the fault of both sides.

It has been recently one of nearly thirty European democracies that are members of the EU having signed a treaty to cooperate in matters of mutual interest. Thirty years ago Eastern European countries that had been colonies of the Soviet Union became democracies. They are now also included in the nearly thirty members of the EU having signed a treaty to cooperate in matters of mutual interest.
They weren't colonies, they were equal partners (in theory) just as they will be in the EU (in theory, but if we are honest not in practice). Those countries are keeping a very weary eye on current events btw, I don't think many of them are amused at the dictatorial carry on of the EU imperium.

Now, however, Brexiteers in the UK have voted to tear up the treaty signed with nearly thirty other EU democracies representing nearly 500 million equal citizens.
Brexiteers, therefore, support a declaration of economic war on nearly 500 million equal fellow citizens in the EU including the equal citizens that were relatively recently ruled by the Soviet Union.
This has the effect of threatening the dismantling of the EU which is the most advanced effort at international cooperation in the world in a continent with a history of centuries of conflict.
It is no wonder the wisdom of the Brexit decision is being challenged.
They have voted to leave, if it is a 'club' of equals, they have the RIGHT to leave, if they don't have that right it is a tyranny (perhaps like your old USSR).

It is emotive and wrong to talk of an 'economic war', that was not their wish and all should do their utmost to avoid any such talk let alone action.

If the EU is as good as you claim no one else will vote to leave, why are you afraid of it being dismantled?

Do you really believe that Germany and France etc will go at each other if the EU fails?
 

shiel

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I'm not 'blaming' them for that, I'm saying they should respect the democratic decision taken by the majority.



When a decision is taken by the majority it should be implemented, that is the basic idea in democracy, it's not best of three or can we change their minds because in our view they got it wrong.
What background history are you talking about?
What has ancient history to do with the failure of the British establishment to include the working class in their considerations?



That is the fault of both sides.



They weren't colonies, they were equal partners (in theory) just as they will be in the EU (in theory, but if we are honest not in practice). Those countries are keeping a very weary eye on current events btw, I don't think many of them are amused at the dictatorial carry on of the EU imperium.



They have voted to leave, if it is a 'club' of equals, they have the RIGHT to leave, if they don't have that right it is a tyranny (perhaps like your old USSR).

It is emotive and wrong to talk of an 'economic war', that was not their wish and all should do their utmost to avoid any such talk let alone action.

If the EU is as good as you claim no one else will vote to leave, why are you afraid of it being dismantled?

Do you really believe that Germany and France etc will go at each other if the EU fails?
Citizens in a democracy are allowed to change their minds. Otherwise it it not a democracy.

The colonies which were part of the Soviet Union were held there by the Soviet army.

When they joined the EU, however, they made a democratic decision to join.

Because of the possible consequences for many people in a democracy there is nothing wrong with confronting decisions to impose tarriffs and tear up international agreements like the Good Friday Agreement.
 

RasherHash

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Citizens in a democracy are allowed to change their minds. Otherwise it it not a democracy.
You didn't change your mind, neither did most Remoaners.

So how does that work then, next time perhaps (I doubt it) you'll win, then the Brexiteers overturn your decision after a few years and so on?

The colonies which were part of the Soviet Union were held there by the Soviet army.
The US Army and their poodles have bases all over their client states, do you think of them as colonies as well?

When they joined the EU they made a democratic decision to join.
Many in those countries had their doubts and they are watching closely the bullying and undermining of one of the former key democracies of the 'club'. I'd say it all makes them feel rather uneasy.

Because of the possible consequences for many people in a democracy there is nothing wrong with confronting decisions to impose tarriffs and tear up international agreements like the Good Friday Agreement.
But you are the one enthusiastically talking about putting on tariffs and having a hard border, it's more project fear from you isn't it?
 

shiel

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You didn't change your mind, neither did most Remoaners.
So how does that work then, next time perhaps (I doubt it) you'll win, then the Brexiteers overturn your decision after a few years and so on?

The US Army and their poodles have bases all over their client states, do you think of them as colonies as well?
Many in those countries had their doubts and they are watching closely the bullying and undermining of one of the former key democracies of the 'club'. I'd say it all makes them feel rather uneasy.
But you are the one enthusiastically talking about putting on tariffs and having a hard border, it's more project fear from you isn't it?
Major question marks about the decision. Cannot get through parliament. Another vote?

The US have not built Berlin walls to keep people in.

Those former Soviet colonial countries are looking at Trump and friend Putin threatening the EU and see the advantage of the EU even more.

No I am happy with the present situation continuing.

Remember it was the Brexiteers that want to change the situation and impose tariffs and the consequent hard border.
 

RasherHash

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Major question marks about the decision. Cannot get through parliament. Another vote?

The US have not built Berlin walls to keep people in.

Those former Soviet colonial countries are looking at Trump and friend Putin threatening the EU and see the advantage of the EU even more.

No I am happy with the present situation continuing.

Remember it was the Brexiteers that want to change the situation and impose tariffs and the consequent hard border.
Well May and company have said there will be Brexit and there won't be another vote so we'll see.

The US have bases all over the world to keep an eye on their empire, they are in a much more dominant position in the world compared to the USSR.
 

Lord Talbot

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Am I missing something
yes, a sense of humour.

not *actually* advocating a British nuclear strike on Dublin... (its too close to Britain, Cork would be more effective)
 

shiel

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yes, a sense of humour.

not *actually* advocating a British nuclear strike on Dublin... (its too close to Britain, Cork would be more effective)
A sense of humour has nothing to do with references to nuking Cork or Dublin or anywhere else.
 


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