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Should children be baptised?


FloatingVoterTralee

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This is not going to be a "bash religion" thread, rather it questions whether the practice of infant baptism actually demeans religion through formulaic ritual, rather than observance. The practice of cultural religion, whereby the rites of christening, communion and confirmation are fulfilled, but little weekly observance occurs, is familiar, so the question should be asked whether the onus of religious education should be placed on parents, with the child then deciding upon reaching adulthood whether they formally wish to become a Catholic? A measure of the true level of religious adherence in this country would rapidly become apparent, and with the variety of multidenominational schools now available, children would gain exposure to the values of all faiths before they would make their decision.
 


Hitch 22

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This is what The Catechism of the Catholic Church has to say about it in paragraph 1261:

"As regards children who have died without Baptism, the Church can only entrust them to the mercy of God, as she does in her funeral rites for them. Indeed, the great mercy of God who desires that all men should be saved, and Jesus' tenderness toward children which caused him to say: 'Let the children come to me, do not hinder them,' allow us to hope that there is a way of salvation for children who have died without Baptism. All the more urgent is the Church's call not to prevent little children coming to Christ through the gift of holy Baptism."
Because the gospels are clear that only those are baptized in Christ can experience what is called the "Beatific Vision" i.e. meeting God himself in heaven.

Unbaptized babies die in original sin (i.e. the sin of Adam and Eve) and end up in limbo which is not heaven but not hell either.

Anyone who died before or after the resurrection of Christ in 33 AD and through no fault of their own never heard of Judaism or Christianity but unknowingly lived a life compatible with Christian virtue would go to limbo.

They would not go heaven because they had not been baptized.

According to Catholic theology in the modern world systems of communication mean most people must have heard in some form of the Catholic religion which is the one true faith so all who do not accept baptism through the Catholic rite or who reject Catholicism and convert to another religion or no faith at all are all destined for the fires of hell because they willfully rejected God's commandments.
 
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Bill

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that's all gobbledygook, on a par with xenu and his DC-8's
 

LadyLou

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Its a very good question in the OP but I think that the cultural value of these events are

very important to Irish people. I don't think they would give up christening and first

communion and confirmation as they are looked on as family gatherings. The religious

element is important to some but not all.
 

ruserious

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Sure why not if it makes the parent's happy.
Once they reach an age of critical thinking, most will see it all for what it is.
 

Hitch 22

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Sure why not if it makes the parent's happy.
Once they reach an age of critical thinking, most will see it all for what it is.
Catholics believe that if their child is not baptized that it risks endangering the child's immortal soul.
 

Hitch 22

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Who the hell do you and other people in society think ye are if a parent or parents choose to baptise their children at a very early age?

It is completely none of your business to be interfering in the private and family life of any particular family. (which is protected by the Constitution and Convention, in addition to rights to religion)

I suppose you or another poster will be suggesting that this is a form of child abuse


A parent is entitled to decide what kind of school they want to send their children as well. Freedom of choice

Supply and demand. If there were mor of ye types of people in Ireland , there would be no more or fewer religious schools.

By all means let the State take over some schools, good luck with that!

Ye are utterly obessed with the Catholic Church , it is laughable. And don't fool yourself , you are a bigot and you do have an issue with Catholism, which, you are free to not take part in.

What the hell makes you think so many people will take up the decision to send a child to a multidenominational school , so quickly , if given the chance ?The , ha ha , Polls?

Time will tell
Catholics believe there is only one true holy Catholic apostolic church and all other religions are false and of the devil.
 

ruserious

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Catholics believe that if their child is not baptized that it risks endangering the child's immortal soul.
They also believe in pre-destination which allows God to know that the child would not be baptised, ergo, endangering the child's immortal soul.
 

livingstone

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I think it's more about a natural human desire to mark a major occassion like the birth of a child. I think few people these days genuinely believe in a God that would not take a child into heaven because they didn't have some magic water poured on them. I know lots of people who believe in much of what Catholcism has to say and simply don't believe that an unbaptised child is any worse off, theologically, than a baptised one.
 

irelandmearsedotcom

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Don't live in Ireland but can hear the sound of babies being thrown out with the bath water all over the shop. In order to understand European
history, art, concept of right and wrong etc ,you have to have some knowledge of the bible and christian concepts. Ritual is also important. If you believe you should be buried,waked ,married and so on according to Christian (catholic,Protestant and dissenter) then baptized/christened according to ritual would be resonable. Personally as a very cynical recovering catholic/protestant/christian/dissenter the world would be a poorer place without christian ,Buddhist, muslim, Taoist ,Jewish etc ritual.
 

Zerubbabel

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This is not going to be a "bash religion" thread, rather it questions whether the practice of infant baptism actually demeans religion through formulaic ritual, rather than observance. The practice of cultural religion, whereby the rites of christening, communion and confirmation are fulfilled, but little weekly observance occurs, is familiar, so the question should be asked whether the onus of religious education should be placed on parents, with the child then deciding upon reaching adulthood whether they formally wish to become a Catholic? A measure of the true level of religious adherence in this country would rapidly become apparent, and with the variety of multidenominational schools now available, children would gain exposure to the values of all faiths before they would make their decision.
I'm afraid this plan won't reduce the numbers of Catholics, the Baptists do this quite successfully, and do not carry out infant baptism. (In contrary to the practice of the apostles and disciples and their successors who baptised entire households, including children, in the early church)
 
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kvran

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Shouldn't it be more a case of young adults being baptised than babies.

Before the black death the three sacraments were meant to go confession, communion, baptism. The rational being that you confess your sins, receive Christ at communion and then are welcomed into the Christian community by baptism. The practice changed because of people wanting to convert as quickly as possible before the plague got them.

A god that lets babies die and then condemns them to purgatory because of it, not exactly a loving god. If he is god he surely has the power to change that practice, if he can't he's not god.
 

Hitch 22

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Ya so?

Other religionious order believe that they are the true church of God

What is your point?.

No religious order is going to say, "nah, we are not the true chuch, church X is right, we are not"

Care now, instead of running your mouth off, provide ACTUAL Proof, from SCHOOL Books where the texts state that "all other religions are false and of the devil" ( since you won't be able to find that, your comments are based on ignorance)

Pathetic reply, from a pathetic and intolerant poster, who no doubt , despite sweet ************************ all experience, would claim that the schools TODAY or even the past 15 years , even bother throwing that stuff out in a class.
I'm not a Catholic you idiot.

I was just telling you what Catholics believe.

They believe that there is only one true church and all the rest are evil.

Unless you convert to the Catholic faith then you aren't going to heaven.
 

Zerubbabel

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I'm not a Catholic you idiot.

I was just telling you what Catholics believe.

They believe that there is only one true church and all the rest are evil.

Unless you convert to the Catholic faith then you aren't going to heaven.
Maybe you should ask Catholics what the actual Catholics beliefs are, rather than make them up to suit.
 

Mercurial

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There are two questions here: 1) Should Catholic parents baptize their children, and 2) should the state permit parents to baptize their children.

The answer to 1) is yes - from the perspective of a Catholic, baptism is clearly in the best interests of the child.

The answer to 2) depends (among other things not worth getting into) on whether baptizing a child harms the child or violates any of its rights, or makes it likely that the child will not be fully able to participate in society once it reaches adulthood.

Mere baptism itself is unlikely to do any of those things, so it should be permitted by the state.
 

Victor Meldrew

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This is what The Catechism of the Catholic Church has to say about it in paragraph 1261:



Because the gospels are clear that only those are baptized in Christ can experience what is called the "Beatific Vision" i.e. meeting God himself in heaven.

Unbaptized babies die in original sin (i.e. the sin of Adam and Eve) and end up in limbo which is not heaven but not hell either.

Anyone who died before or after the resurrection of Christ in 33 AD and through no fault of their own never heard of Judaism or Christianity but unknowingly lived a life compatible with Christian virtue would go to limbo.

They would not go heaven because they had not been baptized.

According to Catholic theology in the modern world systems of communication mean most people must have heard in some form of the Catholic religion which is the one true faith so all who do not accept baptism through the Catholic rite or who reject Catholicism and convert to another religion or no faith at all are all destined for the fires of hell because they willfully rejected God's commandments.

Great Post Hitch. I was going to make an argument that Baptism is a nonsense more rooted in agricultural accounting. (tagging ears of sheep and cattle ) .

But your explanation makes a fare better argument for me,
 

Mercurial

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For those with the mindset of people like you, The State can never have the power to interfere with the rights of the family. This ain't some form of child abuse or risk that the welfare of the child will be in jeoprady. State and people like you can frankly ************************ right off.
Shush.
 

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