Should corporation tax be increased ?

former wesleyan

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Irelands corporation tax rates are lauded as contributing to our success in attracting foreign investment.
However, as is obvious from the following comparison table, they are in my opinion another example of how successive lazy governments have allowed the nation to be ripped off.:mad:
It is clear from this table that foreign firms could easily pay more in corporation tax here and still save millions ( sorry; billions ).
Where else would they go ?:D
http://www.idaireland.com/why-ireland/tax/
 


markjbloggs

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Irelands corporation tax rates are lauded as contributing to our success in attracting foreign investment.
However, as is obvious from the following comparison table, they are in my opinion another example of how successive lazy governments have allowed the nation to be ripped off.:mad:
It is clear from this table that foreign firms could easily pay more in corporation tax here and still save millions ( sorry; billions ).
Where else would they go ?:D
Tax Regime - IDA Ireland Investment Promotion Agency
The low corporation tax is the only thing keeping these companies in Ireland. FF have managed to destroy all the other good reasons.
 

Asparagus

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Lets get Cowen into a car and drive him over to intel or microsoft.

Get him to explain to the ceos that he is raising the corporation tax.

Watch and wonder at how ireland goes from a modern western society to the bronze age in 2 months.

What you are suggesting is tantamount to throwing the baby out and keeping the bathwater.
 

Asparagus

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Lithuania - 15%
Latvia - 15%
Montenegro - 9%
Serbia - 10%
Cyprus - 10%

Just some of the places they could run to.

Reduce the corporate rate to 5% and get a few jobs in.
 

showbandmanager

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its not a case anymore of should it be increased , it will be increased as a condition of our bailout
 

anewbeginning

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I have a feeling Cowen/Lenihan would sacrifice anything to get their hands on money from the ECB and IMF.

FF are notorious at sacrificing the long term interests of the country for short term financial and political gain.

I would be worried with any FF government in office.
 

former wesleyan

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Lithuania - 15%
Latvia - 15%
Montenegro - 9%
Serbia - 10%
Cyprus - 10%

Just some of the places they could run to.

Reduce the corporate rate to 5% and get a few jobs in.
Yeah, right. Montenegro here I come ! So why aren't they already there then ?
I'm not suggesting that it be doubled , another 1% would bring in added income and the multis would still be getting away with murder.
And don't forget those companies who have only a shadow presence here, employ Tilly to answer the phone, and are laughing all the way to the non-Irish bank.
 

anewbeginning

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If big multinationals thought they could make one dollar more profit in Outer Mongolia, they would upsticks in the morning.

If you don't increase profits year on year in any of these corporations, you are toast, and so are the factories it runs in those countries.
 

Asparagus

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Yeah, right. Montenegro here I come ! So why aren't they already there then ?
I'm not suggesting that it be doubled , another 1% would bring in added income and the multis would still be getting away with murder.
And don't forget those companies who have only a shadow presence here, employ Tilly to answer the phone, and are laughing all the way to the non-Irish bank.
Companies with a shadow presence and Tilly on the phones give us 12.5% of their profits for the courtesy of registring their company.

Some of the more present ones get subsidies for a number of years that actually nullify their corperate tax take.

Jobs is the economy. Not the banks or credit or tax systems - jobs.
Why mess with that?
 

Nemi_

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It is clear from this table that foreign firms could easily pay more in corporation tax here and still save millions ( sorry; billions ).
Where else would they go ?:D
Tax Regime - IDA Ireland Investment Promotion Agency
I agree generally its time to wean ourselves off tax-based FDI. In fact, it was probably time a few years ago. Its just right now is not the time. You want to have some clarity on what exactly we would be making a living out of instead.

Bear in mind, the lower corporation tax compensates for high energy costs and so forth. Its a lazy man's way of avoiding real problems, but we need to solve the real problems first.
 

whataday

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Low corporation tax and a well educated english speaking population is what attracted the Intel's the Dells and the Microsofts and all the other associated fish. Mess with it and the Gov runs the very high probability of putting the final nail in the Irish coffin.. Think of the taxable income that's being paid because of these corporations. And also remember we have a very high employers prsi.. Leave them alone Gov.... In fact bend over and get more employment into the country..
 

former wesleyan

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So low corp. tax is a kind of economic heroin ? Having used it in the past we're stuck with it ? For all its supposed virtues we haven't attracted a Mercedes assembly line for example. The only companies who've been attracted are American and they'll up and go anytime they feel like it,low tax or not. I'm still convinced they could pay another 1% and not feel it.
 

Old Mr Grouser

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its not a case anymore of should it be increased , it will be increased as a condition of our bailout
I'm sorry, I can't find any support for this on the web, but I'm sure I remember reading a few months ago that other countries are not only unhappy about Ireland's low rate of corporation tax.

They are even more annoyed that some international companies are using transfer-pricing and sets of subsidiary and sub-subsidiary companies so that their Irish-based subsidiaries are used to channel profits to other, even lower-tax, little countries.

Apparently the Irish authorities have a very relaxed attitude to this.
 

bormotello

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I'm not suggesting that it be doubled , another 1% would bring in added income and the multis would still be getting away with murder.
Do you mean that preserving wastage by state is more important then risk of losing jobs?
 
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Unfortunately we can't raise the rates while we are in the middle of the storm but 'this too will pass' and when it does we should raise the rates or even better the EU will harmonise. Ireland will then be forced to compete in terms of quality, putting money into education and concentrating on our strengths rather than prostituting ourselves in front of these 'markets' and multi nationals
 

Nemi_

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So low corp. tax is a kind of economic heroin ?
That's it in a nutshell.
Having used it in the past we're stuck with it ?
Until we've developed some alternative, based on Irish people making products and services that people want at a price that reflects their value.

Like that's going to catch on.
The only companies who've been attracted are American and they'll up and go anytime they feel like it,low tax or not. I'm still convinced they could pay another 1% and not feel it.
Well, FDI is mobile by definition. If it wasn't footloose, the IDA could not have attracted it here in the first place.

I think the problem is we've really no deep appreciation of how Ireland, as a location, looks to FDI companies. I don't think we've a basis for saying 1% would make no difference, or if 1% less would assure that they'd stick around for longer.

All we can do, I feel, is hope that keeping rates at their present level will mean the FDI companies stick around for a bit longer. That way, our coherent long-term strategic plans, that our polity is famous for formulating, can be seamlessly implemented.
 

HanleyS

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So what if we raise Corporation Tax?

Firstly, I'm not an advocate of a high tax economy. That is not the motivation behind this thread. Personally I believe this high corporate tax rate is no longer the competitive advantage it once was and has turned us into a giant tax avoidance vehicle while adding little to the economy. I think it's time we moved on from pretending that this alone is going to sustain the economy.

In light of this I have two questions. Perhaps somebody has the answers or perhaps not.

1. What would be the effect on employment figures of a 2% increase in corporation tax?
2. What would be the effect on tax income of a 2% increase in corporation tax?

It seems to me that such a small increase in the tax rate would have little effect on employment but a bigger impact on tax avoidance vehicles operating here.
 


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