Should corporation tax be increased ?

sparkey321

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May 4, 2007
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1,380
no we wouldnt, u have a very defeatist and like the governement narrow viewpoint on all this, out of destruction comes construction

if we as a nation are beholden to europe then we may as well spit on the graves of our forefathers
You know that 20 billion the government has to borrow to meet day to day spending ? To pay social welfare, run hospitals, schools etc ?

Where do you think we get it ?

What happens if it stops coming ?
 


HarshBuzz

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lol, that would be telling now
not really - there's tens of thousands at work in each sector

I'm betting it's not finance anyway!
 

ifreannach

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You know that 20 billion the government has to borrow to meet day to day spending ? To pay social welfare, run hospitals, schools etc ?

Where do you think we get it ?

What happens if it stops coming ?
well i know the sun would rise(well above the clouds although nice for a few days now) my kids would keep growing, the grass would need cutting before winter, i would need a pay rise in order to pay for the rise in diesel, my wife would still be beautiful, i would still annoy lots of people, the dogs would need walking, the wife would be busy in the back yard sowing potatoes and the like, i would have to wrap the kids up and insist they hibernate until christmas, santa would be emaciated and his sack a tesco plastic bag........life will go on my friend
 

grafter1

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We are in our current situation because the Irtish government didn't raise corporation tax in 2002 / 2003? Are you being serious ?

it had nothing to do with increasing spending at a unsustainable rate ? It had nothing to do with a property bubble that drive our labor costs to ridiculous levels ? it had nothing to do with sacrificing our manufacturing sector to support the property sector ? it had nothing to do with massive waste ?



Play with the corporation tax and see what happens. Why are we uncompetitive ? We can we not support manufacturing in this country ?



Not all taxes are anti jobs.....

Blatantly robbed from another forum but.

Churchill famously said that the greatest argument against democracy was a 5 min conversation with an ordinary voter. Due to modern technology all you need now is 30 seconds on the Internet.
I love all the insults but ill come back to you on a few of your points.

Obviously the government spent money pretty recklessly over the past decade - we can take that as a given.

Now when you look at the progression of an economy do you believe that it stops at the FDI stage or is there something beyond that where we have our own entrepreneurs employing our people (while of course having a certain level of foreign entreprenuers)

Lots of people in this country say we cannot touch Corporation Tax. I say why and they say we just cannot. I'm tired of this sort of nonesense. I dont believe that raising the Corp Tax rate to perhaps 18% will lead to the loss of tens of thousands of jobs. I just dont see it.

Your Churchill quote is much appreciated. I rather go through my life asking questions and making up my own mind. I don't accept that the 12.5% rate is untouchable.
 

ifreannach

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I love all the insults but ill come back to you on a few of your points.

Obviously the government spent money pretty recklessly over the past decade - we can take that as a given.

Now when you look at the progression of an economy do you believe that it stops at the FDI stage or is there something beyond that where we have our own entrepreneurs employing our people (while of course having a certain level of foreign entreprenuers)

Lots of people in this country say we cannot touch Corporation Tax. I say why and they say we just cannot. I'm tired of this sort of nonesense. I dont believe that raising the Corp Tax rate to perhaps 18% will lead to the loss of tens of thousands of jobs. I just dont see it.

Your Churchill quote is much appreciated. I rather go through my life asking questions and making up my own mind. I don't accept that the 12.5% rate is untouchable.
+1
 

Sariel

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May 21, 2010
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hmmm, so RTE (and every other news outlet) is wrong

not to mention the Financial Times?

Sariel, anonymous internet poster, is correct and these guys are all wrong. Give me a break.
HarshBuzz brings out the lords of authority when if any of those outlets could do a bit of investigatve journalism they could just go to the ECB balance sheet for the week of 6 October 2010 - Consolidated financial statement of the Eurosystem as at 1 October 2010 where you can read the following:

The holdings by the Eurosystem of securities held for monetary policy purposes (asset item 7.1) increased by EUR 1,535 million to EUR 124.3 billion. This is due to settled purchases of EUR 1,384 million under the Securities Markets Programme and to quarter-end adjustments of EUR 151 million. Therefore, in the week ending 1 October 2010 the value of the accumulated purchases under the Securities Markets Programme and that of the portfolio held under the covered bond purchase programme totalled EUR 63.3 billion and EUR 61 billion respectively. The portfolios held under both the Securities Markets Programme and the covered bond purchase programme are accounted for on a held-to-maturity basis.

The ECB balance sheet is a consolidated version of the individual NCB Balance sheets and is released every Tuesday for the preceding week. When the Irish central bank releases theirs for the month of September you will be able to observe how much they have bought.
 

sparkey321

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well i know the sun would rise(well above the clouds although nice for a few days now) my kids would keep growing, the grass would need cutting before winter, i would need a pay rise in order to pay for the rise in diesel, my wife would still be beautiful, i would still annoy lots of people, the dogs would need walking, the wife would be busy in the back yard sowing potatoes and the like, i would have to wrap the kids up and insist they hibernate until christmas, santa would be emaciated and his sack a tesco plastic bag........life will go on my friend
So it would be Im allright Jack ?

But what if your employer pulled out ? What would pay your dole ?
 

sparkey321

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May 4, 2007
Messages
1,380
I love all the insults but ill come back to you on a few of your points.

Obviously the government spent money pretty recklessly over the past decade - we can take that as a given.

Now when you look at the progression of an economy do you believe that it stops at the FDI stage or is there something beyond that where we have our own entrepreneurs employing our people (while of course having a certain level of foreign entreprenuers)

Lots of people in this country say we cannot touch Corporation Tax. I say why and they say we just cannot. I'm tired of this sort of nonesense. I dont believe that raising the Corp Tax rate to perhaps 18% will lead to the loss of tens of thousands of jobs. I just dont see it.

Your Churchill quote is much appreciated. I rather go through my life asking questions and making up my own mind. I don't accept that the 12.5% rate is untouchable.
Of course I dont think that an economy stops at the FDI stage. But equally I dont think that a country the size of Ireland should ever ignore FDI.

Corporation tax supports Irish companies as well you know.

As for why..

Do you believe that raising corporation tax would have a negative impact on current and future FDI ?

If your answer is no then there is no point in continuing this conversation.

If yes then I would have thought it was pretty self explanatory.
 

HarshBuzz

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Feb 28, 2008
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The ECB balance sheet is a consolidated version of the individual NCB Balance sheets and is released every Tuesday for the preceding week. When the Irish central bank releases theirs for the month of September you will be able to observe how much they have bought.
sigh
 

Sariel

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May 21, 2010
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318
Yes, I've read it before. It is all guess work we believe this we believe that, when all they have to do is go to the individual balance sheets of the national central banks that are released monthly.

Central bank money has to come back to to central bank because it is a liability of the central bank which are commercial bank deposits i.e. reserves.
 
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ifreannach

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So it would be Im allright Jack ?

But what if your employer pulled out ? What would pay your dole ?
i would be alright yes, lot more free time to get involved in lots of much needed projects too......joy

why would an employer pull out, you ever see the grants companies get? you know what happens that money?

my employer if it pulled out would do so because some other country has decided to fvck their people to appease a piece of fvcking paper

reset society you wouldnt need a dole, its a fvcking abhorrence and a drag on creativity
 

Christel

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Mar 12, 2004
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that's some lovely rhetoric there

now, let's just take a look at the consequences shall we?

the majority of the income base of Ireland disappears; we're left with farming (which is already heavily subsidised) and a few niche players. Tax take plunges, we default on our debt, public sector pay is reduced by over 50%, over a million people emigrate...shall I go on?

it's all very well and good to spout on about over-reliance on FDI but if you haven't got anything to replace it with it then you're just making noise.
You would probably agree that Ireland could and should have raised CT slowly over the years?

I find it so sad that Ireland seems to have prostituted herself to those foreign companies and didn't manage to get something out of them. Is in contrast totally dependent on them. Why?

If probably Ireland had charged them more corporation tax - on profit only that is - earlier, it wouldn't have made much difference, would it?
And after all they and their employees use public services and infastructure here, and on the other hand if Ireland wouldn't have only relied on them, there might be more Irish industries/companies employing people. It's the typical Irish way. Users. Getting it easy. Selling itself.
No attempt to get things up on its own.

On the other hand what can you expect from companies thatr only use you?

A few percent increase in CT should not make too much difference, should it. But that self image of Ireland. To be sooo special and great and loved by Americans etc.


At least it seems education didn't hold up with these foreign companies' requirements. And even emigrants will not be so special, because they have English, elsewhere anymore.

Before I forget: I assume there are lots of people and politicians that would on the contrary consider and welcome a lowering of the corporation tax?
 

ifreannach

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872
You would probably agree that Ireland could and should have raised CT slowly over the years?

I find it so sad that Ireland seems to have prostituted herself to those foreign companies and didn't manage to get something out of them. Is in contrast totally dependent on them. Why?

If probably Ireland had charged them more corporation tax - on profit only that is - earlier, it wouldn't have made much difference, would it?
And after all they and their employees use public services and infastructure here, and on the other hand if Ireland wouldn't have only relied on them, there might be more Irish industries/companies employing people. It's the typical Irish way. Users. Getting it easy. Selling itself.
No attempt to get things up on its own.

On the other hand what can you expect from companies thatr only use you?

A few percent increase in CT should not make too much difference, should it. But that self image of Ireland. To be sooo special and great and loved by Americans etc.


At least it seems education didn't hold up with these foreign companies' requirements. And even emigrants will not be so special, because they have English, elsewhere anymore.

Before I forget: I assume there are lots of people and politicians that would on the contrary consider and welcome a lowering of the corporation tax?
+1
 

HanleyS

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Jan 11, 2007
Messages
815
I find it so sad that Ireland seems to have prostituted herself to those foreign companies and didn't manage to get something out of them. Is in contrast totally dependent on them. Why?
Because, in the fashion of rednecks all over the world we poured all of our money into a speculative real estate bubble instead of investing in wealth creating activity.
 


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