Should Dublin have a red light district?

Nodin

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What annoys me about these threads is that the vast majiority of these men would recoil in absolute horror at the idea of their own daughters or mothers working as prostitutes....But its fine and dandy for other people's daughters and mothers....Showing that see the women and girls caught up in this business as essentially lacking some aspect of humanity that they themselves share in along with their female family members.
Many would rather those in the position of working as prostitutes be afforded the full protection of the law, and some oversight of their conditions, rather for them to have to live "off the radar".
 


Green eyed monster

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What annoys me about these threads is that the vast majiority of these men would recoil in absolute horror at the idea of their own daughters or mothers working as prostitutes....But its fine and dandy for other people's daughters and mothers....Showing that see the women and girls caught up in this business as essentially lacking some aspect of humanity that they themselves share in along with their female family members.
Exactly, the act of using prostitutes is itself the act of buying a person as a type of object for their own gratification - you can be sure they wouldn't want a relative doing it.

In fact in terms of the motivation of the 'john' it is akin to a form of slavery in some ways - in other ways literal slavery for many of the women and girls who may or may not be doing it concensually. Really this form of libertarianism is more about expanding 'the right of money to buy' than it is about personal liberties, it's the 'liberty' of wealth.
 

Thac0man

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For once I agree with you. There is a certain disconnect between those who argue that prostitution should be legalised and those in the trade itself. In India certain castes are prostitutes and their lives are nothing but misery and their existance harrowing. If a woman chooses to sell her body and surrender that intimate facet of her personallity, it should not be encouraged. Should we facilitate it? But regulating such a practice and thus having a hand in it is an abhorant concept.

Prostitution is here in Ireland because it is profitable, not for the good or well being of any involved. Legalise and tax it, it becomes less profitable and those who through difficult circumstances have to submit themelves to what they would percieve as indignity, would remain victims. Those who view prostitutes as all emancipated 'Emmanuelle' types are harbouring childish bullsh*t perceptions instead of thought out opinions.

I might also add that once its regulated, those registered are marked for life as prostitutes. Unless of course we actually manage to change the opinion of the entire nation as a whole on the subject of prostitution, allow people to lie on their CVs or remove certain provisions of the freedom of Information act.

Anyone who advocates legalistion of prostitution should answer this question, would they encourage their sister, spouse or mother to become one? Prostitution is a degrading trade and most involved who shout about its benefits are making money and intend to continue to do so. In practically all cases though once the money has dried up so does the supporting opinion. Legalisation will remove the block to the trades wider practice, not alter or lessen the results and damage that is done to those involved.

Everywhere in this are contrary arguments. Money from a prostutition Tax should be used to rehabilitate prostitutes maybe to offset the damage done to individuals. But men or women who choose to be prostitutes know the risks right? Because of course we will have to spend some of that Tax on teaching them the dangers and the ropes. That Tax take is shrinking all the time it seeems. And assuming society accepts them, so once registered its okay to be identified as a whore for life? Or in this profession in particular we should allow dishonesty to be legally acceptable while at the same time being legal?

We need sex tourism like we need a hole in the head. Thailand, a popular sex tourist destintation is already awash with organised criminal gangs and all other types of vice. Amsterdam has fared no better in reality.

Now I assume some tool here will be reading my post here as a quote, as he writes a sniffy reply aimed in no small part at proving how liberal and bourgeois he is. But that reply will be couched in terms of indignation at my moral judgement. But in point of fact I have not made any judgement on the the basis of morality and still have ample grounds to oppose the legalisation of prostitution.

Interestingly as the OP points out we did have a 'red light' district about 90 years ago, at a time when our rulers did not give a toss about any of the cities poor or what level they had to degrade themselves to to put food on the table. Legalisation is exactly that, not giving a feck and more than that, both washing our hands of and profitting off societies most vunerable. The poorest and most desperate and phycologically damaged will have a purpose in serving the rest of us.... oh what a breakthrough that would be! :rolleyes:
 

SevenStars

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Many would rather those in the position of working as prostitutes be afforded the full protection of the law, and some oversight of their conditions, rather for them to have to live "off the radar".
Those working in Ireland legally dont have the full weight of the law protecting them, managers often ignore it and getting them to abide by it can be difficult and a lot of times not worth the bother....What makes you think prostitution being legal would bring any real change to the way things stand now??
 

Echolalia

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No. We should do as in Sweden. De-criminalise the prostitutes (who are all slaves of one kind or another, to my mind) and criminise the purchase of sex.
 

nixmix

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Food for thought for those against legalisation
Legal or not, sex industry powers on

To sum up the findings: Legalisation has a significant benefit to the health of the workers in the industry.

If people are genuinely concerned for the well being of those involved then I suggest you campaign for its legalisation.
 

Nodin

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Those working in Ireland legally dont have the full weight of the law protecting them, managers often ignore it and getting them to abide by it can be difficult and a lot of times not worth the bother....What makes you think prostitution being legal would bring any real change to the way things stand now??
Going by your post there one could swear that the labour court and various legal protections for workers weren't worth the trouble it took to get them created.

As regards prostitution specifially...because now we've no clear idea of who is involved, who is being literally forced into it, what can be done to get those sucked in out of it....
 

borntorum

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Anyone who advocates legalistion of prostitution should answer this question, would they encourage their sister, spouse or mother to become one?
I wouldn't want my sister to become a prostitute. I wouldn't want her to work in a nightclub either, due to the risk of harassment, or be a garda, due to the danger.

Why should you, or I, stop a woman from legally becoming a prostitute based on what we would want our hypothetical sisters or mothers to do?
 

Asparagus

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Though it would be utterly symbolic....The final nail in the coffin of everything that was won in the national revolutionary struggle of the 1918-21.
Jee and I was sure that that was all aout 800 year oppression and self determination and what not, but no twas all about banning hookers.
 

Libero

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thac0man said:
Anyone who advocates legalistion of prostitution should answer this question, would they encourage their sister, spouse or mother to become one?
Anyone who claims to give a sh1t about the welfare of prostitutes should probably put the overwrought emotional rhetoric to one side and answer this one question: are the women involved in prostitution better or worse off in licenced, supervised brothels?

As for sisters, spouses and mothers, I wouldn't want mine cleaning toilets or appearing on degrading reality TV shows, but I don't use my disgust at those things to ground the claim that they be made illegal.

If we banned everything that you'd rather not imagine your sister or mother doing, we probably wouldn't have much fun in bed, would we?
 

Telemachus

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As regards prostitution specifially...because now we've no clear idea of who is involved, who is being literally forced into it, what can be done to get those sucked in out of it....
Lots have their phone numbers up on escorts Ireland, the chair of the Irish Labour women's group thinks 9/10 are foreign whores.
Life of a prostitute - The Irish Times - Thu, Sep 02, 2010

So we have a bit of info anyway.

The cops only need to enforce the law to get people "out" of it, we know that brothels are openly operating even in the smallest of irish towns, the Gardai and local TDs and councillers are essentially complicit. How any of these foreign women are trafficked is the question.

This isnt even mentioning the boys up in Limerick who are selling their holes to fund their university studies.

Anyone who claims to give a sh1t about the welfare of prostitutes should probably put the overwrought emotional rhetoric to one side and answer this one question: are the women involved in prostitution better or worse off in licenced, supervised brothels?
Anyone who claims to give a sh1t about the welfare of women should probably put the overwrought emotional rhetoric to one side and answer this one question: are the women involved in prostitution better or worse off not selling their bodies at all?
 

florin

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Completely opposed.

Prostitution, legalised or otherwise, is exploitative of women and men who work in the business and exposes to them to a whole series of threats to their person that no-one should have to endure.

In truth, I doubt that very many choose it as a career but rather are forced into this because of desperate economic circumstances/dependency issues etc.

That is of course referring to those who are adults not underage, and excluding those who have been trafficked for the purposes of exploitation.
You could say exactly the same thing about the mining industry, but I don't see you calling for the banning of metal.
 

Mitsui2

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Though it would be utterly symbolic....The final nail in the coffin of everything that was won in the national revolutionary struggle of the 1918-21.
Can you explain the logic of this? It baffles me.
 

Clanrickard

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Many would rather those in the position of working as prostitutes be afforded the full protection of the law, and some oversight of their conditions, rather for them to have to live "off the radar".
Exactly. I'd hate to see my daughter working as a hooker but if she is over 18 it should be her choice. If women end up being hookers I'd like to think that the state is looking out for them rather than shunting them underground to please a mob of do-gooders, busybodies and angry feminists.
 

rubensni

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No. We should do as in Sweden. De-criminalise the prostitutes (who are all slaves of one kind or another, to my mind) and criminise the purchase of sex.
Why? There's still prostitution in Sweden.
 

Clanrickard

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This isnt even mentioning the boys up in Limerick who are selling their holes to fund their university studies.
You have a link for this!
 

Thac0man

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Anyone who claims to give a sh1t about the welfare of prostitutes should probably put the overwrought emotional rhetoric to one side and answer this one question: are the women involved in prostitution better or worse off in licenced, supervised brothels?

As for sisters, spouses and mothers, I wouldn't want mine cleaning toilets or appearing on degrading reality TV shows, but I don't use my disgust at those things to ground the claim that they be made illegal.

If we banned everything that you'd rather not imagine your sister or mother doing, we probably wouldn't have much fun in bed, would we?
What, cleaning a toilet is beneath you but taking up the arse is'ent? Of do you have servents to do both? I take you you are arguing for the ideal world where servents can do both for you. I proposed the hypothetical question for one reason and one reason alone; to illustrate that those arguing in favour of legalised prostitution are in fact dehumanising those involved in the trade, as opposed to supporting them. You will to reinforce the concept that prostitutes are some namless and faceless, but taxable entity, seems to enforce that.

I wouldn't want my sister to become a prostitute. I wouldn't want her to work in a nightclub either, due to the risk of harassment, or be a garda, due to the danger.

Why should you, or I, stop a woman from legally becoming a prostitute based on what we would want our hypothetical sisters or mothers to do?
No point in answering you sepetately either, except to say the 'trade' does alot of damage to people and opening it up even more to the vunerable jetisons our responsiblity towards them. Why should we look after our most at risk when there could be plenty of money they could be making if they are willing to forego their dignity? Individual men are women are exactly that, men and women, not prostitutes in waiting. The acceptance of the practice more than suggests those relegated the trade are okay to be forgotten.

I also note that both you guys latched onto the same apparently 'easy' point while ignoring the wider issues I raised. Dehumanising the issue is obviously easier than I thought for some.
 
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fluffykontbiscuits

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Well lets be honest, if any of our daughters, mothers etc were hookers we are not the ones sleeping with them are we ? (Though one or two posters come to mind who might take advantage of that). Prostitution is here to stay, let the women get full psychological evaluations, interview them, teach them about safe sex and undercut criminal gangs so it does not become worthwhile for them. Extra money can be allocated to hire extra security personnel.

Use the robust legislation thats in place to protect hookers (Health Safety Welfare at Work Act , Working time Act) and have them form a union . Enact legislation that makes it illegal to solicit in certain areas and come down heavy handed on those who break the law.

Mitsui, she has a tendency to ramble on the poor girl, she thinks blowing up Gardai are great fun thats the classy calibre of bird our SS is ;)
 

RahenyFG

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We already have some, Leeson Street and in around the canal area. Not legal but the gards turn out a blind eye to it.
 


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