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Should Income Tax above €1 Million be lower........


Joined
Aug 6, 2007
Messages
22,910
Seems a strange thing to suggest but given that Individuals earning in excess of €1M tend to spend a proportion of their income on tax advisers and also on legal tax avoidance schemes then perhaps its time to look at it in a different way.

Rather than attempting to tax high earners more and more above a certain figure which is regressive and ensures rather that the tax take going up the only people to benefit are tax advisers.

Income above €1 Million gets taxed at 5% and Income above €5 Million at 2.5%.

No doubt the usual suspects will demand anybody earning at that level should give all their money up but as taxation rates get higher you collect less so why not try a different way as less incentive to avoid tax on a higer income when you pay less tax than the cost of your advisers.
 


R

Ramps

Seems a strange thing to suggest but given that Individuals earning in excess of €1M tend to spend a proportion of their income on tax advisers and also on legal tax avoidance schemes then perhaps its time to look at it in a different way.

Rather than attempting to tax high earners more and more above a certain figure which is regressive and ensures rather that the tax take going up the only people to benefit are tax advisers.

Income above €1 Million gets taxed at 5% and Income above €5 Million at 2.5%.

No doubt the usual suspects will demand anybody earning at that level should give all their money up but as taxation rates get higher you collect less so why not try a different way as less incentive to avoid tax on a higer income when you pay less tax than the cost of your advisers.
What people usually ignore is the most damaging effect of high (progressive) taxes on any high level of income: it causes the rich to "hid" money from the taxman, in unproductive shelters.

A flat tax on all income would make redundant the techniques used by tens of thousands of scoundr...I mean tax lawyers who are currently employed in a never ending game of hide-and-seek with revenue services all over the world.
 

Tea Party Patriot

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 31, 2010
Messages
11,557
What people usually ignore is the most damaging effect of high (progressive) taxes on any high level of income: it causes the rich to "hid" money from the taxman, in unproductive shelters.

A flat tax on all income would make redundant the techniques used by tens of thousands of scoundr...I mean tax lawyers who are currently employed in a never ending game of hide-and-seek with revenue services all over the world.
It would be a win win solution with a much clearer tax code, but then there are a lot of vested interests who don't want to see that.
 

firefly123

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 8, 2009
Messages
28,176
Or we could close the loopholes. Y'know with laws and stuff. Like.
 
R

Ramps

Or we could close the loopholes. Y'know with laws and stuff. Like.
More laws...yes, that's exactly what we need: more civil servants to come up with more laws, and more lawyers to show more people how to get round them. :cry:
 

sydney2007

Active member
Joined
Mar 3, 2010
Messages
119
I actually do agree with you. Penal Tax rates are seriously becoming a disincentive to work harder and earn more. Maybe not reduce the tax rates for such high earners down so low, bu perhaps drop back again to standard rate at a certain point. And I also think proprietors of realtively small businesses, who are the backbione of the country, and provide the vast majority of jobd should get some sort of either extra tax allowance, or a small rate reduction (say 2% off the top rate) for each person they employ up to say 15. So many of the proprietors are self employed, who work very long hours, and take all the risks, for very little reward. They are seriously penalised for being in any way successful, and actually pay more tax than an employee on the same income, as they don't get the PAYE tax allowance.
And they (the business) are paying vast sums in PRSI for the employees who get benefits when the business folds up, while they have no safety net, and get nothing. They have to be destitute to get state help - the employees are supported for 15 months or so.
 
Joined
Aug 6, 2007
Messages
22,910
What people usually ignore is the most damaging effect of high (progressive) taxes on any high level of income: it causes the rich to "hid" money from the taxman, in unproductive shelters.

A flat tax on all income would make redundant the techniques used by tens of thousands of scoundr...I mean tax lawyers who are currently employed in a never ending game of hide-and-seek with revenue services all over the world.
Which is really where coming from as if earn €10 M a year and declare it you pay
€491k on 1st Million
€200k from €1-5 Million
€125k from €5-10 Million

Yup its 8.2% on €10 M BUT its at the top end where the state loses out anyway and IF you require a minimum residency which should add in a benefit from consumption tax.
 

firefly123

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 8, 2009
Messages
28,176
More laws...yes, that's exactly what we need: more civil servants to come up with more laws, and more lawyers to show more people how to get round them. :cry:
Ah yes! I remember! It was all that over regulation that caused the problem in the first place! If only the lads had been given a free hand without those silly rules. Sure we would all be in clover!
 
Joined
Aug 6, 2007
Messages
22,910
Ah yes! I remember! It was all that over regulation that caused the problem in the first place! If only the lads had been given a free hand without those silly rules. Sure we would all be in clover!
You not getting it now and will not get it in the future so you lose nothing.

People seem to assume they have a right to take all of someone elses income.
 

gatsbygirl20

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 1, 2008
Messages
22,771
Or we could close the loopholes. Y'know with laws and stuff. Like.
Must use the same logic on those pesky teachers shouting about getting a third paycut in four years...

Wouldn't it be simpler--instead of letting them go on strike and paying greedy union leaders to organise the shutting of schools, etc--to just not cut their pay at all, in fact give them more pay increases...?

After a certain point with these teachers, it's the law of diminishing returns, it's all too much hassle...

We need to try a different way....let these rich teachers on 50K get even richer at the state's expense, to save us the hassle of trying to take money off them...

Anything for a quiet life
 
R

Ramps

Ah yes! I remember! It was all that over regulation that caused the problem in the first place! If only the lads had been given a free hand without those silly rules. Sure we would all be in clover!
Now you're getting it. ;)
 

mhagain

Well-known member
Joined
May 11, 2010
Messages
1,061
"When low taxes don't help the rich" http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/28/business/how-rich-political-donors-are-hurting-themselves.html?_r=0

"The Myth of the Rich Who Flee From Taxes" http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/16/business/high-taxes-are-not-a-prime-reason-for-relocation-studies-say.html?pagewanted=all

"Tax Cuts for the Rich Don’t Spur Growth" Study: Tax Cuts for the Rich Don’t Spur Growth

At this stage it's getting increasingly obvious that a certain contingent here don't actually think for themselves any more. They may not be even capable of doing so. Instead they just buy into an ideology lock stock and barrell, and parrot it's tenets, no matter how ridiculous or disproven they may be.
 
R

Ramps

You not getting it now and will not get it in the future so you lose nothing.

People seem to assume they have a right to take all of someone elses income.
Exactly; and, worse still, they trust, snigger, govt. to spend well the money it takes. Same old, same old....
 

firefly123

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 8, 2009
Messages
28,176
And you wonder why people will spend €100k on tax lawyers when if easy there is no reason to do so.
Or they could pay their 90k tax bill and suck it up like us PAYE chumps. I mean we are talking a handful of people with international interests for the most part. Otherwise they ain't gonna leave. These big fish in a small pond. If they do there will be a gap in the market for some enterprising individual who is happy to be a millionaire and pay his taxes. A MILLIONAIRE! For Christ sake why does someone with ten million need to squirrel away 1 million? It's just stupid avarice. It's not even capitalism anymore at that point.
If they don't want to pay the tax then move to gurnsey or whatever but no passport and no 179 days inthe country shîte. You are either in or out. It's a big shît sandwich and we all gotta take a bite no matter how big your mouth happens to be.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Aug 6, 2007
Messages
22,910
"When low taxes don't help the rich" http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/28/business/how-rich-political-donors-are-hurting-themselves.html?_r=0

"The Myth of the Rich Who Flee From Taxes" http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/16/business/high-taxes-are-not-a-prime-reason-for-relocation-studies-say.html?pagewanted=all

"Tax Cuts for the Rich Don’t Spur Growth" Study: Tax Cuts for the Rich Don’t Spur Growth

At this stage it's getting increasingly obvious that a certain contingent here don't actually think for themselves any more. They may not be even capable of doing so. Instead they just buy into an ideology lock stock and barrell, and parrot it's tenets, no matter how ridiculous or disproven they may be.
You parrot the US media but there is a real difference between taxation in US and Europe.

DOB moved easily to save millions, why bother when you don't lose much.
 
R

Ramps

"When low taxes don't help the rich" http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/28/business/how-rich-political-donors-are-hurting-themselves.html?_r=0

"The Myth of the Rich Who Flee From Taxes" http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/16/business/high-taxes-are-not-a-prime-reason-for-relocation-studies-say.html?pagewanted=all

"Tax Cuts for the Rich Don’t Spur Growth" Study: Tax Cuts for the Rich Don’t Spur Growth

At this stage it's getting increasingly obvious that a certain contingent here don't actually think for themselves any more. They may not be even capable of doing so. Instead they just buy into an ideology lock stock and barrell, and parrot it's tenets, no matter how ridiculous or disproven they may be.
Please, don't...
 
Joined
Aug 6, 2007
Messages
22,910
Or they could pay their 90k tax bill and suck it up like us PAYE chumps. I mean we are talking a handful of people with international interests for the most part. Otherwise they ain't gonna leave. These big fish in a small pond. If they do there will be a gap in the market for some enterprising individual who is happy to be a millionaire and pay his taxes. A MILLIONIRE! For Christ sake why does someone with ten million need to squirrel away 1 million? It's just stupid avarice. It's not even capitalism anymore at that point.
If they don't want to pay the tax then move to gurnard or whatever but no passport and no 179 days inthe country shîte. You are either in or out. It's a big shît sandwich and we all gotta take a bite no matter how big your mouth happens to be.
They have already left and anybody selling a business will do so in advance to avoid being screwed by the state.
 

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