Should Ireland introduce school vouchers?

Dame_Enda

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Should Ireland follow the Betsy DeVos road to education reform by introducing a school voucher system?

That would allow parents to choose the best performing schools using vouchers. It would encourage competition and drive up standards.

Experience in other countries mostly (some disagree) points to vouchers driving up standards:

Sweden:

A 2004 study concluded that school results in public schools improved due to the increased competition.[82] However, Per Thulberg, director general of the Swedish National Agency for Education, has said that the system "has not led to better results" and in the 2000s Sweden's ranking in the PISA league tables worsened. Though Rachel Wolf, director of the New Schools Network, has suggested that Sweden's education standards had slipped for reasons other than as a result of free schools.[83]...

United States:

In the 1980s, the Reagan administration pushed for vouchers, as did the George W. Bush administration in the initial education-reform proposals leading up to the No Child Left Behind Act. As of December 2016, 17 states plus the District of Columbia had enacted school voucher programs. When including scholarship tax credits and education savings accounts - two alternatives to vouchers - there are 27 states plus the District of Columbia with private school choice programs. Most of these programs were offered to students in low-income families, low performing schools, or students with disabilities. By 2014, the number participating in either vouchers or tax-credit scholarships increased to 250,000, a 30% increase from 2010, but still a small fraction compared to the 55 million in traditional schools.[84]


Recent analysis of the competitive effects of school vouchers in Florida suggests that more competition improves performance in the regular public schools.[88]
One argument against vouchers from the Left is the myth that it favours the wealthy. However in Indiana, the state pays $4500 in vouchers to households earning less than $41,000, with lower amounts to better off parents.
 


Munnkeyman

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Ye what? You could do with reading the Wikipedia page you linked to.
 

SideysGhost

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Jesus not more far-right dribbling insanity.

The idea of school vouchers was dreamt up by that lunatic Friedman, backed up by that other peddler of WingNut voodoo hoohaa von Hayek.

Just how many times do the deranged notions of the insane neo-liberal right have to spectacularly blow up causing massive misery, before the swivel-eyed acolytes of this cartoonish absurd religion start to get a clue?
 

Glenshane4

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I agree with Education Vouchers. I think that each school should be financed by the parents of the children attending the school. A Voucher system would enable parents to do so. I do not think that the award of Vouchers should be mean-tested. There might need to be different values of Vouchers for different age bands of children. I think that the State should not finance schools - other than indirectly through voucher-assisted parents.

I do not know whether or not a voucher system would improve the standard of education. It would put schools and, therefore, teachers under the financial thumbs of the parents of the pupils. That would be good enough reason for me.
 

Glenshane4

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"Jesus not more far-right dribbling insanity."

Why are you so arrogant? Just because YOU do not like an idea does not mean that it is "dribbling insanity."

"The idea of school vouchers was dreamt up by that lunatic Friedman, backed up by that other peddler of WingNut voodoo hoohaa von Hayek."

How do you KNOW that Friedman was a lunatic?

"Just how many times do the deranged notions of the insane neo-liberal right"

Their ideas tend to be a lot wiser that the "deranged notions" of the insane looney left.
 
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making waves

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I agree with Education Vouchers. I think that each school should be financed by the parents of the children attending the school. A Voucher system would enable parents to do so. I do not think that the award of Vouchers should be mean-tested. There might need to be different values of Vouchers for different age bands of children. I think that the State should not finance schools - other than indirectly through voucher-assisted parents.
each school is already financed by the parents of those attending it - it's called taxation. What we do have in this country are private schools for the wealthy subsidised by the parents of those attending state schools through the state paying the teachers in private schools - while at the same time the wealthy bob and weave their way through a myriad of tax avoidance measures.
 

GDPR

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I'm not sure about this but I do think the ROI should bring in a grammar school system which would help bright working class kids greatly.
 

Glenshane4

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each school is already financed by the parents of those attending it - it's called taxation. What we do have in this country are private schools for the wealthy subsidised by the parents of those attending state schools through the state paying the teachers in private schools - while at the same time the wealthy bob and weave their way through a myriad of tax avoidance measures.
Unfortunately, what you have written is only partly true. It is not just the parents of school children who have to pay tax to maintain schools.

Nor do I agree with your claim that private schools are subsidised by the taxpayer. If there were no private schools, the salaries of teachers would cost the taxpayer every bit as much. It does not matter whether a taxpayer-funded teacher is working in a State school or in a private school.

P.S. That phrase "State school." Does that mean a school owned by the State?
 

Henry94.

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These kinds of ideas are gaining traction all over the world and the left-wing ideas which were the foundation of politics in the post-war era are hanging on by a thread. The left need to look at the reasons for this and formulate a coherent response that is based on more than just defending public sector unions. This is true across Transport, Health and Education. People want what works and they see public ownership as a failed model where the unions call the shots.

I don't know how the left is going to get back in the game but they need to do some serious thinking.
 

silverharp

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The complaint in the US is that the school system became stuffed with administrators and education standards havnt risen to justify the added cost. The education system has become a haven for the work shy and their practices reflect this. It would be easy enough to compete against these schools for a lower price and a better education for students




 

PBP voter

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"Rich" kids do better because their parents take a big interest in their education.

Many working class kids have parents who don't put the same value on education.

Tricky one to solve. But things are changing slowly.
 

PBP voter

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Jesus not more far-right dribbling insanity.

The idea of school vouchers was dreamt up by that lunatic Friedman, backed up by that other peddler of WingNut voodoo hoohaa von Hayek.

Just how many times do the deranged notions of the insane neo-liberal right have to spectacularly blow up causing massive misery, before the swivel-eyed acolytes of this cartoonish absurd religion start to get a clue?
Why do you live in a neo-liberal kip by choice?

It's a racist neo-liberal kip.

New Zealand's Neoliberal Reforms: Half a Revolution - Boston - 2014 - Governance - Wiley Online Library

New Zealand human rights body warns against country becoming 'as racist as Australia' 
 

paulp

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"Rich" kids do better because their parents take a big interest in their education.

Many working class kids have parents who don't put the same value on education.

Tricky one to solve. But things are changing slowly.
what's been done to make that change?
ie to improve the value placed on a good education by society in general
 

paulp

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Don't we have a de-facto voucher system in place
Schools compete for students (outside Dublin anyway)
Schools get capitation grant based on number of students enrolled
 

EoinMag

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silverharp

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Don't we have a de-facto voucher system in place
Schools compete for students (outside Dublin anyway)
Schools get capitation grant based on number of students enrolled
on the supply side though you cant just setup a school and cash the cheques?
 

Windowshopper

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We already have a de facto voucher system. Most schools are owned by private bodies who receive funding from the state.

It seems that some of our posters are so in thrall of right wing thought across the sea and the ocean that they want to introduce policies which are already in place. I think Eagle was onto something when she commented to the effect that some posters are more interested in Anglo-American culture wars and supporting their team then they are of actual politics in Ireland. In a way I'm guilty of that myself its so much easier to pick a ideological side in a foreign country where you have nothing to lose and the intricacies,compromises and emotional attachments of domestic politics don't come into play.
 
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silverharp

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don't "educate together", for example, do that?
maybe its over regulated then, I don't know the process in fairness but it just doesn't look like you can just rent a couple of Georgian buildings on Merrion square and open up a school knowing you will be paid if you fill it.
 


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