Should Ireland put a proposal for a UN supervised referendum for Scotland



Sidewindered

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Some nonsense being spouted on this thread, mostly from the xenophobic right-wing "I'm a true Irish patriot and think we should join the Brits in leaving Europe" headbins

I am inclined to agree with my Minister Of The Interior that overt public pronouncements would be unhelpful. And anyway it's generally not how Irish diplomacy operates. A few quiet words in Brussels in favour of the Scots, a nod and a wink to the SNP that the Republic will be right there with any assistance they need to get their new State up and running, and even a quiet murmer to those morons in Westminster that we can smooth this road over for them if they just keep their mouths mostly shut. Job done.

The Scotland England border is extremely short, about a third of the length of the NI border and most of that is a national park. It has 2 major roads, about 18 minor road crossings, and iirc one rail crossing. It also doesn't have hundreds of thousands of locals with intergenerational family histories of smuggling and armed rebellion. The two situations are simply not comparable in this or any other universe.

The Spanish objection is also more Brexiteer BS that is churned out by right-wing English media with no basis in reality. Spain's only concern is that the process be lawful democratic and peaceful to avoid exciting the hotheads in either Catalunya or the Francoist remnants in Madrid

Finally any gobshite babbling on about how the SNP could annex Northern Unionists simply Does. Not. Have. A. Clue.

Unionism and their bigoted knuckledragging thug hangers on in the Orange Order and Rangers Supporters Clubs are violently opposed to Scottish Independence and caused a hatefest riot ig George Swuare at the time of the first Indyref. They and their beliefs and attitudes are the very antithesis of indy-backing Scots vision of themselves as a modern progressive pluralist European social democracy. That is what the SNP want to achieve, and all of Ireland's soft diplomatic skills should be bent towards smoothing that road for them in any way we can

Another small liberal democracy to vote along side us further dilutes the power of the big EU states AND the illiberal fash e.g. Hungary and increasingly Poland
 

shiel

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For those who need reminding, the topic of the this thread is not the Good Friday Agreement, nor is it about supposed declarations of economic war - there are plenty of there are plenty of brexit threads for that- take it there.
We also need reminding that the issue of Scottish independence would not be on the agenda now but for the Brexit decision.

Brexit tore up agreements signed with nearly thirty European democracies and an international agreement [Belfast/Good Friday Agreement] signed with this former colony and present democratic member of the EU.

Since Scotland voted to remain in the EU all of that highlights the agreement which has Scotland in the UK and consequently the issue of Scottish independence.

Also of course all of us need reminding of the issue of freedom of speech.
 
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McSlaggart

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If the Scots got independence, The Unionists would seek alignment to Scotland and put a United Ireland off for another hundred years.
The first problem with that idea is that an independent Scotland does not yet exist. How do you think Unionists will address that particular problem?
 

rainmaker

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We also need reminding that the issue of Scottish independence would not be on the agenda now but for the Brexit decision.
The last referendum came about well before Brexit, it would still be the SNPs goal with or without it.
Brexit tore up agreements signed with nearly thirty European democracies and an international agreement [Belfast/Good Friday Agreement] signed with this former colony and present democratic member of the EU.
This is your single transferable post and it is way off topic on this thread. I will not ask you again to take it to the brexit threads.
Also of course all of us need reminding of the issue of freedom of speech.
You do not have a right of free speech that trumps the rules of this site.
 

rainmaker

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The Spanish objection is also more Brexiteer BS that is churned out by right-wing English media with no basis in reality. Spain's only concern is that the process be lawful democratic and peaceful to avoid exciting the hotheads in either Catalunya or the Francoist remnants in Madrid
Judging by the fairly violent police interventions last year the Spanish do not seem overly concerned about either democracy or peaceful transitions.

You should also remember there are other states who have separatist problems, not least Italy, Belgium and even Denmark.
A few quiet words in Brussels in favour of the Scots,
It will take a little more than that. Every member state will vote on this, and despite your downplaying of a few of their own domestic separatist issues, they will vote in their own interest.

I am also not sure why you imagine most of Europe is salivating as much as some on here at the prospect of destroying the UK - I doubt most EU citizens care enough to share that dream.
 

shiel

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The last referendum came about well before Brexit, it would still be the SNPs goal with or without it.

This is your single transferable post and it is way off topic on this thread.

I will not ask you again to take it to the brexit threads.

You do not have a right of free speech that trumps the rules of this site.
Let us agree to disagree on whether Scottish independence would be such a big issue now if Brexit did not happen.

I think Brexit has had an effect on the importance of the issue in Scotland now.

The fact that the implementation of Brexit is so extreme by the Brexiteers in UK that it involves an economic war with the rest of the EU and a re-imposition of the border in relation to Ireland is putting even more pressure on Scotland.

That is not off topic.

Brexit does not have to be that extreme.

Thanks for confirming that in your opinion I do not have the right to free speech.

All should take note.
 

ringobrodgar

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Some nonsense being spouted on this thread, mostly from the xenophobic right-wing "I'm a true Irish patriot and think we should join the Brits in leaving Europe" headbins

I am inclined to agree with my Minister Of The Interior that overt public pronouncements would be unhelpful. And anyway it's generally not how Irish diplomacy operates. A few quiet words in Brussels in favour of the Scots, a nod and a wink to the SNP that the Republic will be right there with any assistance they need to get their new State up and running, and even a quiet murmer to those morons in Westminster that we can smooth this road over for them if they just keep their mouths mostly shut. Job done.

The Scotland England border is extremely short, about a third of the length of the NI border and most of that is a national park. It has 2 major roads, about 18 minor road crossings, and iirc one rail crossing. It also doesn't have hundreds of thousands of locals with intergenerational family histories of smuggling and armed rebellion. The two situations are simply not comparable in this or any other universe.

The Spanish objection is also more Brexiteer BS that is churned out by right-wing English media with no basis in reality. Spain's only concern is that the process be lawful democratic and peaceful to avoid exciting the hotheads in either Catalunya or the Francoist remnants in Madrid

Finally any gobshite babbling on about how the SNP could annex Northern Unionists simply Does. Not. Have. A. Clue.

Unionism and their bigoted knuckledragging thug hangers on in the Orange Order and Rangers Supporters Clubs are violently opposed to Scottish Independence and caused a hatefest riot ig George Swuare at the time of the first Indyref. They and their beliefs and attitudes are the very antithesis of indy-backing Scots vision of themselves as a modern progressive pluralist European social democracy. That is what the SNP want to achieve, and all of Ireland's soft diplomatic skills should be bent towards smoothing that road for them in any way we can

Another small liberal democracy to vote along side us further dilutes the power of the big EU states AND the illiberal fash e.g. Hungary and increasingly Poland
There is a small point you may not have full knowledge of concerning the Spanish. The Spanish right hates us mainly cos we tried to kill them in the 1930's we tried to assassinate Franco. The left on the other hand isnt too bothered and they are currently in power. So yes there are territorial issues but the Spanish right holds a grudge against Scotland.

Scotland wouldn't be obstructive in the EU but we have always been great at stacking alliances to prevent an unfavorable outcome.
 

ringobrodgar

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The moneymen in London realise how much money they stand to lose by supporting Unionist terrorism if Unionists terrorists try to start it up again - and consequently I see Unionist terrorism being isolated if they try to go for a replay.


As to the thread, Ireland getting involved at UN level as per the OP is not in Ireland's best interests and as pointed out, Britain would simply use it's veto at the UN in any event.
I would hope they would be stupid enough to veto it as it would strip away any illusion that England was anymore a democratic state. Would also further outrage the people of Scotland.
 


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