Should Irish be optional for the Leaving Certificate?

White Horse

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18 Brumaire said:
"that particular section of the people of this island" amounts to roughly 75% of the people. In the Republic its about 90%.
You confuse people who support nationalist politics with those of Gaelic origin. Ireland is a mix of people from all sorts of countries.

Many on the eastern seaboard are of English and or Scottish roots. Gaelic was never the language of their ancestors.

Gaelic is an important and significant language. But it in not the exclusive language of the people as a whole.

You seek to elevate it to a position it doesn't merit.
 


LiamORaiste

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I think it would serve us better to make the Leaving Certificate Exam optional and focus on creating an Education System rather than an Examination system. I agree with those who say that Irish should be fun to learn - but so should every subject. It's the LC which is the problem not the Irish language.
 

18 Brumaire

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Those who support nationalist politics should support the promotion of Irish as the vernacular, irrespective of their origin, otherwise they cannot call themselves "nationalists".
 

The Hard Left

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18 Brumaire , thats a bullshit comment, but more importantly, do you believe 'nationalism' should be forced on children?
 

White Horse

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18 Brumaire said:
Those who support nationalist politics should support the promotion of Irish as the vernacular, irrespective of their origin, otherwise they cannot call themselves "nationalists".
There is no connection between believing in the self determination of the island and the promotion of a particular language.

You must have a different idea of nationalism to me.
 

newbie12

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meriwether said:
newbie12 said:
meriwether said:
Here's a radical idea - why not improve the teaching and curriculum rather than dumping it as a required subject because it's taught badly?
By jove, he's got it!


[quote:2ob69icq]They also seem to have left in their wake a large group of self hating Irish people with no interest in their own language or culture.
So how can improved teaching or a curriculum change work on these people, if they hate the culture anyway?
If only Enda Kenny could get is as well!

Won't do anything for the Irish haters but thankfully they're just a small but noisy minority.
You dont have much of a contribution to make really, bar branding people as 'Irish haters' do you?
Polite society tends to look down on that sort of gibberish, you know.[/quote:2ob69icq]

If you say so then it must be true. Maybe I should just join FG where my lack of contribution will pass unnoticed.
 

18 Brumaire

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The Hard Left, every nation or state "forces" "nationalism" on its school children in one fashion or another, e.g. flying flags, saying prayers, displaying pictures of heads of state, the teaching of history etc.

You might elaborate on the less important aspect of my comment which you cryptically describe as "bullshit".
 

newbie12

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Watcher said:
LowIQ said:
These constant attacks on the Irish language and culture are becoming tiresome and are the main reason I will never, ever vote for your party. I don't trust FF with my money but I don't trust you lot with something even more fundamental: my nationality. Putting the Blueshirts in power with your squeamishness about being Irish is a very scary prospect indeed.
If you really care about the language, improve teaching methods, concentrate on conversational Irish, allocate more funding to media since we need more than one local radio station and a part-time TV station, etc., etc.
Writing your name in Irish and telling us Enda is fluent in Irish doesn't fool anyone either. You're just a Trojan Horse to undermine it from within.
If it is such a great language then people will want to learn it. Make it optional and let the people decide. What are you afraid of? I do believe that the language shouold be encouraged and therefore funding provided for its availability should people decide to learn and speak it but forcing people to do something is not the way forward. Too much importance is placed on the leaving cert to force people to do a subject that will have littyle relevance in the furtherance of their education.
This argument really irritates me. Should we not 'force' students to learn maths and English too? Any country which doesn't insist on achieving minimum standards of knowledge for its language is going nowhere. Irish being weak is a justification for increasing the amount of educational resources not reducing them.
 

LowIQ

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newbie12 said:
Watcher said:
LowIQ said:
These constant attacks on the Irish language and culture are becoming tiresome and are the main reason I will never, ever vote for your party. I don't trust FF with my money but I don't trust you lot with something even more fundamental: my nationality. Putting the Blueshirts in power with your squeamishness about being Irish is a very scary prospect indeed.
If you really care about the language, improve teaching methods, concentrate on conversational Irish, allocate more funding to media since we need more than one local radio station and a part-time TV station, etc., etc.
Writing your name in Irish and telling us Enda is fluent in Irish doesn't fool anyone either. You're just a Trojan Horse to undermine it from within.
If it is such a great language then people will want to learn it. Make it optional and let the people decide. What are you afraid of? I do believe that the language shouold be encouraged and therefore funding provided for its availability should people decide to learn and speak it but forcing people to do something is not the way forward. Too much importance is placed on the leaving cert to force people to do a subject that will have littyle relevance in the furtherance of their education.
This argument really irritates me. Should we not 'force' students to learn maths and English too? Any country which doesn't insist on achieving minimum standards of knowledge for its language is going nowhere. Irish being weak is a justification for increasing the amount of educational resources not reducing them.
Thank you for stating the obvious. Education is indeed compulsory. I have no use for English and Maths above primary level. French is also "useless" to me. Accounting and Chemistry are probably the most "useless" of all. I haven't even thought about them since leaving school. I still resent my teachers, however, for "ramming them down my throat." They are all a complete "waste of money" and "compulsory education" should be abolished. That way, I will "respect" them more.
As I said earlier, the Blueshirts are using people like Darren Mac as a Trojan Horse to undermine the language from within. The ultimate goal, I am convinced, is to eliminate Irish from the schools altogether.
Just for the sake of repeating myself: FG is not to be trusted with the nation's language or culture. They have an irrational hatred for both.
 

geraghd

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newbie12 said:
Here's a radical idea - why not improve the teaching and curriculum rather than dumping it as a required subject because it's taught badly?

Dropping it as required for LC was the type of cheap electoral gimmick we have come to expect from Fine Gael and one of the reasons they never get elected. The biggest loss from all the years of British colonialism was the near destruction of our language. They also seem to have left in their wake a large group of self hating Irish people with no interest in their own language or culture.
Do you not see a link between teaching standards and the level of interest and involvment each individual class has?

FG do.
 

geraghd

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newbie12 said:
Watcher said:
LowIQ said:
These constant attacks on the Irish language and culture are becoming tiresome and are the main reason I will never, ever vote for your party. I don't trust FF with my money but I don't trust you lot with something even more fundamental: my nationality. Putting the Blueshirts in power with your squeamishness about being Irish is a very scary prospect indeed.
If you really care about the language, improve teaching methods, concentrate on conversational Irish, allocate more funding to media since we need more than one local radio station and a part-time TV station, etc., etc.
Writing your name in Irish and telling us Enda is fluent in Irish doesn't fool anyone either. You're just a Trojan Horse to undermine it from within.
If it is such a great language then people will want to learn it. Make it optional and let the people decide. What are you afraid of? I do believe that the language shouold be encouraged and therefore funding provided for its availability should people decide to learn and speak it but forcing people to do something is not the way forward. Too much importance is placed on the leaving cert to force people to do a subject that will have littyle relevance in the furtherance of their education.
This argument really irritates me. Should we not 'force' students to learn maths and English too? Any country which doesn't insist on achieving minimum standards of knowledge for its language is going nowhere. Irish being weak is a justification for increasing the amount of educational resources not reducing them.
Yeah cause that approach has worked for the past 80 years. :roll:
 

geraghd

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LowIQ said:
newbie12 said:
Watcher said:
LowIQ said:
These constant attacks on the Irish language and culture are becoming tiresome and are the main reason I will never, ever vote for your party. I don't trust FF with my money but I don't trust you lot with something even more fundamental: my nationality. Putting the Blueshirts in power with your squeamishness about being Irish is a very scary prospect indeed.
If you really care about the language, improve teaching methods, concentrate on conversational Irish, allocate more funding to media since we need more than one local radio station and a part-time TV station, etc., etc.
Writing your name in Irish and telling us Enda is fluent in Irish doesn't fool anyone either. You're just a Trojan Horse to undermine it from within.
If it is such a great language then people will want to learn it. Make it optional and let the people decide. What are you afraid of? I do believe that the language shouold be encouraged and therefore funding provided for its availability should people decide to learn and speak it but forcing people to do something is not the way forward. Too much importance is placed on the leaving cert to force people to do a subject that will have littyle relevance in the furtherance of their education.
This argument really irritates me. Should we not 'force' students to learn maths and English too? Any country which doesn't insist on achieving minimum standards of knowledge for its language is going nowhere. Irish being weak is a justification for increasing the amount of educational resources not reducing them.
Thank you for stating the obvious. Education is indeed compulsory. I have no use for English and Maths above primary level. French is also "useless" to me. Accounting and Chemistry are probably the most "useless" of all. I haven't even thought about them since leaving school. I still resent my teachers, however, for "ramming them down my throat." They are all a complete "waste of money" and "compulsory education" should be abolished. That way, I will "respect" them more.
As I said earlier, the Blueshirts are using people like Darren Mac as a Trojan Horse to undermine the language from within. The ultimate goal, I am convinced, is to eliminate Irish from the schools altogether.
Just for the sake of repeating myself: FG is not to be trusted with the nation's language or culture. They have an irrational hatred for both.
You just like wasting other people's money dont you? You hate the irish people and the irish tax money and just want to see it all thrown into a black hole. You have an irrational hatred for both and why we can trust people like you with our money and our educational budget is beyond me.
:roll:
 

LowIQ

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Geraghd, you are being deliberately obtuse.
 

LowIQ

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Like I said, I don't trust you people.
 

meriwether

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LowIQ said:
newbie12 said:
Watcher said:
LowIQ said:
These constant attacks on the Irish language and culture are becoming tiresome and are the main reason I will never, ever vote for your party. I don't trust FF with my money but I don't trust you lot with something even more fundamental: my nationality. Putting the Blueshirts in power with your squeamishness about being Irish is a very scary prospect indeed.
If you really care about the language, improve teaching methods, concentrate on conversational Irish, allocate more funding to media since we need more than one local radio station and a part-time TV station, etc., etc.
Writing your name in Irish and telling us Enda is fluent in Irish doesn't fool anyone either. You're just a Trojan Horse to undermine it from within.
If it is such a great language then people will want to learn it. Make it optional and let the people decide. What are you afraid of? I do believe that the language shouold be encouraged and therefore funding provided for its availability should people decide to learn and speak it but forcing people to do something is not the way forward. Too much importance is placed on the leaving cert to force people to do a subject that will have littyle relevance in the furtherance of their education.
This argument really irritates me. Should we not 'force' students to learn maths and English too? Any country which doesn't insist on achieving minimum standards of knowledge for its language is going nowhere. Irish being weak is a justification for increasing the amount of educational resources not reducing them.
Thank you for stating the obvious. Education is indeed compulsory. I have no use for English and Maths above primary level. French is also "useless" to me. Accounting and Chemistry are probably the most "useless" of all. I haven't even thought about them since leaving school. I still resent my teachers, however, for "ramming them down my throat." They are all a complete "waste of money" and "compulsory education" should be abolished. That way, I will "respect" them more.
As I said earlier, the Blueshirts are using people like Darren Mac as a Trojan Horse to undermine the language from within. .
The last time I checked, you werent forced to do French, Chemistry or accounting for the Leaving Cert, were you?
No you weren't.
FG want compulsion ended for the leaving cert. Before that, children will have approx 12 years of compulsion.

The ultimate goal, I am convinced, is to eliminate Irish from the schools altogether.
Just for the sake of repeating myself: FG is not to be trusted with the nation's language or culture. They have an irrational hatred for both
Thats more of a factor of you being a lunatic, than a factor of reality.
 

hiding behind a poster

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LowIQ said:
These constant attacks on the Irish language and culture are becoming tiresome and are the main reason I will never, ever vote for your party. I don't trust FF with my money but I don't trust you lot with something even more fundamental: my nationality. Putting the Blueshirts in power with your squeamishness about being Irish is a very scary prospect indeed.
If you really care about the language, improve teaching methods, concentrate on conversational Irish, allocate more funding to media since we need more than one local radio station and a part-time TV station, etc., etc.
:roll: Funny, that - because ALL those proposals were contained in a policy document on the Irish language last year. Written by, errr, Fine Gael.....

Except for the TV station bit, given that TnaG,(as it was then) was set up by a Fine Gael government.
 

LowIQ

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Meriwether, you are being obtuse too! Education is "forced" upon us until age 16 (I think). Whether I took one subject over another is immaterial because I was "forced" to take one of them. That "choice" aside, I still had to take Maths and English -- both of which are "useless" using the definition you people apply to Irish.
 

LowIQ

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hiding behind a poster said:
LowIQ said:
These constant attacks on the Irish language and culture are becoming tiresome and are the main reason I will never, ever vote for your party. I don't trust FF with my money but I don't trust you lot with something even more fundamental: my nationality. Putting the Blueshirts in power with your squeamishness about being Irish is a very scary prospect indeed.
If you really care about the language, improve teaching methods, concentrate on conversational Irish, allocate more funding to media since we need more than one local radio station and a part-time TV station, etc., etc.
:roll: Funny, that - because ALL those proposals were contained in a policy document on the Irish language last year. Written by, errr, Fine Gael.....

Except for the TV station bit, given that TnaG,(as it was then) was set up by a Fine Gael government.
Nothing more valuable than a politician's promise. :roll:
 

geraghd

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LowIQ said:
Geraghd, you are being deliberately obtuse.
That was the point.
 

Johnny

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hiding behind a poster said:
Except for the TV station bit, given that TnaG,(as it was then) was set up by a Fine Gael government.
Don't think so, HBAP. It started broadcasting in 1996 when FG were in power alright, but was it not established by Michael D. when FF/Lab government was still in power?
 


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