Should Irish politicians/public figures start to get involved in the campaign for Scottish independence.

Cellachán Chaisil

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Should Irish politicians/public figures start to get involved in the campaign for Scottish independence.

So this week we had a prominent UK politician publicly orchestrating a campaign to effect constitutional change in Ireland. Now, it's isn't a first for Nigel, but this is the first time that he's interventions have tried to change the status quo. So, given Nigel seems to have broken a rather basic tenet of international politics, is it about time we started to pursue our own interests in the Scottish independence debate?

Here's why I believe it is clearly in Ireland's benefit to have Scotland become independent and remain in the EU:

Firstly, Scotland and Ireland have very strong historical links. Both countries have Gaelic speakers of both varieties, English and Scots speakers. Our histories are intertwined, given the name Scotland derives from the original Scottish settlers from Ireland and Scotsmen and Alisdair Mac Colla played an not unimportant role in their Covenenter wars. The traffic went both ways with Edward De Bruce, Gallowglasses, Redshanks and the Stuarts having a not insignificant impact on our country. That's before you take consideration of the family links between the two countries, there's a strong history of migration and emigration from Donegal to Scotland a fact that is to be plainly seen from the number of famous Scottish personalities with Irish surnames. It would be a shame if a hard Brexit damaged these connections.

Secondly are the economic ties. An independent Scotland in the EU would be our closest EU neighbour allowing unrestricted trade and make it easier for us to access Northern European markets without having to travel across the UK. Furthermore, Ireland is quite dependent on UK oil. Plans are afoot to establish an LPT terminal in Limerick in case we can no longer import from the UK after Brexit, but an independent Scotland in the EU would mean we would import it directly from them.

Then there is the matter of borders. Already we are hearing noises from hard-brexiters that the do not want to ensure that regulations both sides of the Northern Irish border remain the same to ensure freedom of movement. An independent Scotland in the EU (which we could ensure remains part of the CTA) would make it even more likely there would be a disparity in regulation as few English would stomach an international trade border across their Island (even it they might be able brook such across Ireland).


Given these benefits then, should Irish politicians (not necessarily in government) and public personalities not be following Farage's example and pursue an agenda of constitutional change in the UK which would be beneficial to the Irish state?
 


michael-mcivor

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Time for another Scottish referendum and one in the 32 to let the people speak- it’s not asking much for the English to allow us democracy over the borders- I don’t know who will leave first between Scotland and The occupied six- but I think it will be us- who is opposed to democracy only those who are afraid of the votes results-
 

Analyzer

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Meehaul Martin is good mates with Nicola Sturgeon.

I think that the maFFia and the SNP are alingned, in the Liberal Group in the EP.

That effectively answers the question.
 

Cellachán Chaisil

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Meehaul Martin is good mates with Nicola Sturgeon.

I think that the maFFia and the SNP are alingned, in the Liberal Group in the EP.

That effectively answers the question.
You have a funny understanding of what an answer is.
 

commonman

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Absolutely NO, but we should tell them independence for Eire failed big time, we are still a banana republic.
 

Vega1447

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Absolutely NO, but we should tell them independence for Eire failed big time, we are still a banana republic.
Who is this "we" paleface?

If you would prefer to be a British "subject" then there is a large island about 100 km East of Dublin. Off you fvck.
 

Cellachán Chaisil

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Absolutely NO, but we should tell them independence for Eire failed big time, we are still a banana republic.
Where is this Eire you speak of?
 

commonman

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Who is this "we" paleface?

If you would prefer to be a British "subject" then there is a large island about 100 km East of Dublin. Off you fvck.
Where did the men and women from this state go to get work and still do.
 

Cellachán Chaisil

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between the bridges

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Lmfao...
 

mr_anderson

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Well having a load of EU & Irish people telling the British how to vote on Brexit turned out just fine.
 

automaticforthepeople

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No way. This is a matter for the Scottish people alone. Our responsibility is to accept whatever the Scots do and work with them for mutual benefit regardless. Anything else would be twisted in any referendum campaign to suggest that Ireland is putting its own interest first.
No nation has the right to intervene in the internal political decisions of neighbours. Who do we think we are. the Russians?
 

flavirostris

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I don't think so. It's their business.
 

ScoobyDoo

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Farage is an elected member of the European Parliament not the British.

The EU have been telling Ireland what to do for years. Nothing new here to see with his visit.

Move on.
 

DexterGreen22

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Nah, 'soft' Yes voters in Glasgow and the surrounding area from a Unionist background are less likely to vote for independence if they think Dublin is in any way involved in the independence movement.


Yes voters are too divided on the EU for another referendum anyway.

It's true that a majority of Scots voted to remain in the EU: 'A majority of Scots backed staying in the EU in last year's Brexit referendum.

'The ruling Scottish National Party, which lost a bid for independence in 2014, has said there should be another vote on the issue if its views on Brexit are ignored'.
https://www.rte.ie/news/2017/0208/851087-scotland-independence/

The SNP say that there shoud be another vote if 'its views on Brexit are ignored' almost as though every SNP voter is behind the EU project.

However more than on-third of SNP voters voted to leave the EU.
36% of SNP and Labour supporters backed Brexit, finds survey | HeraldScotland



And it isn't confined to the grassroots, Jim Sillars (former deputy leader of the SNP) has been quite vocally in favour of Brexit:

'Lawmaking in the EU is controlled by the Commission initiating a proposal, with the European Parliament consulted and the Council of Ministers making a final decision. The Commission is a self-selecting, self regarding unaccountable elite, initiating and implementing legislation, wielding extensive executive power; it is the antithesis of how democracy should work.

For decades, Scots who support independence have pointed to the democratic deficit at Westminster, where Scotland's 59 MPs represent just nine per cent of the total of 650, marginalising our interests and confining us to permanent minority status. They have rightly argued that we should leave such an unequal union.

In the European Parliament, Scotland's six MEPs represent one per cent of the 751 total membership, yet, incredibly, there are nationalists arguing that we should remain in that unequal union.

The question at the heart of this referendum is simple: do we want to continue being governed by an organisation we do not elect and cannot reject or do we want to bring democracy home, in exactly the way generations of nationalists have urged us to?'

https://www.commonspace.scot/articles/3976/jim-sillars-why-scottish-nationalists-should-back-brexit



Some people outwith Scotland underestimate the strength of anti-EU feeling among a large number of pro-independence supporters. There is Farage like hostility to Brussels from Yes voters that hardly gets mentioned in the main stream media.
 

Roll_On

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Nah there's no need for Ireland to interfere, they'll vote for independence regardless. Ireland interfering on an official level would be seen as provocative. Nigel coming here to talk to a bunch of crackpots is one thing, he's from a fringe party in the UK and is not a government rep. I also suspect that he is paid by the Russians, and I would think the Russians had every bit as much to do with Brexit as they did with Trump, the British are just more discreet about their dodgy dealings.

There's no reason why Ireland can't go on a more covert campaign borrowing lessons from the Russians and planting 'fake news' across Scotish social media. But that assumes that the Irish govt have an interest in the dissolution of the UK. perhaps we do not.
 

Cellachán Chaisil

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No way. This is a matter for the Scottish people alone. Our responsibility is to accept whatever the Scots do and work with them for mutual benefit regardless. Anything else would be twisted in any referendum campaign to suggest that Ireland is putting its own interest first.
No nation has the right to intervene in the internal political decisions of neighbours. Who do we think we are. the Russians?
Couldn't the same be said for Irexit though?
 

Cellachán Chaisil

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Nah there's no need for Ireland to interfere, they'll vote for independence regardless. Ireland interfering on an official level would be seen as provocative. Nigel coming here to talk to a bunch of crackpots is one thing, he's from a fringe party in the UK and is not a government rep. I also suspect that he is paid by the Russians, and I would think the Russians had every bit as much to do with Brexit as they did with Trump, the British are just more discreet about their dodgy dealings.

There's no reason why Ireland can't go on a more covert campaign borrowing lessons from the Russians and planting 'fake news' across Scotish social media. But that assumes that the Irish govt have an interest in the dissolution of the UK. perhaps we do not.
I'm not talking about official level. I did mention politicians and public figures, but not those in government.
 

Cellachán Chaisil

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Farage is an elected member of the European Parliament not the British.

The EU have been telling Ireland what to do for years. Nothing new here to see with his visit.

Move on.
We are the EU.

And Farage's interest isn't Ireland's or that of the European Union for that matter.
 


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