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Should our Defence Forces be more like the the Swiss Military?


NewDawn1

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Jan 10, 2012
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Although our Defence Forces provide much practical help at home for example the armed escorts it seems to me that the vast majority of our purpose is to serve abroad on missions seemingly not much to do with us. Lets be honest, what has The Lebanon really got to do with Irish interests?
The only real reason that we are forced to spend money and time on peacekeeping is because the EU tells us we do not have another choice. In fact our 'Defence Policy' is determined by the EU.

Treaty of Lisbon/Article 1 - Treaty on European Union/Article 27 - Wikisource, the free online library

The Military of Switzerland is designed almost exclusively as a defence force. Their capacity to defence their borders is high. But more importantly its ability to 'put off' any foreign nation from invading it because of its highly militarised civilian population who are all well trained in sabotage in their immediate communities. In other words the world knows; invade Switzerland and the country will be ground to a halt within hours and your forces will be attacked relentlessly and in every area.

And here is the good news, the only spend about 0.2 percent more than us of their GDP than we do on the military. Of course it would not be fair to say things are this simple but the point being: What we spend our money on in the military does little for sovereign interests of the Irish people. And part of the reason is that our military are yet another section of this country that we have lost control over the decision making process of.

A believe that a constructive Defence Force that works like the Swiss in the interests of its own people is the way forward.
 
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Eire1976

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Nov 20, 2010
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14,190
With all the events in the North over the last few Weeks, you simply still do not see how close Ireland is to the outbreak of civil war do you?

The media does a great job of making Irish people into greedy morons who would never care enough to take up battle again but deep down it's only a matter of time before Loyalists start something after unity and our forces will lead the way.

Yes, that battle will need the involvement of every citizen, swiss style.
 

NewDawn1

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With all the events in the North over the last few Weeks, you simply still do not see how close Ireland is to the outbreak of civil war do you?

The media does a great job of making Irish people into greedy morons who would never care enough to take up battle again but deep down it's only a matter of time before Loyalists start something after unity and our forces will lead the way.

Yes, that battle will need the involvement of every citizen, swiss style.
I'm not sure exactly what you mean. Are you saying unity is close and it will cause a civil war?
 

Hungry Dodo

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I like how they mined hundreds of strategic roads, tunnels and bridges to dissuade anyone from invading
 

Follower

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Although our Defence Forces provide much practical help at home for example the armed escorts it seems to me that the vast majority of our purpose is to serve abroad on missions seemingly not much to do with us. Lets be honest, what has The Lebanon really got to do with Irish interests?
The only real reason that we are forced to spend money and time on peacekeeping is because the EU tells us we do not have another choice. In fact our 'Defence Policy' is determined by the EU.

Treaty of Lisbon/Article 1 - Treaty on European Union/Article 27 - Wikisource, the free online library

The Military of Switzerland is designed almost exclusively as a defence force. Their capacity to defence their borders is high. But more importantly its ability to 'put off' any foreign nation from invading it because of its its highly militarised civilian population who are all well trained in sabotage in their immediate communities. In other words the world knows; invade Switzerland and the country will be ground to a halt within hours and your forces will be attacked relentlessly and in every area.

And here is the good news, the only spend about 0.2 percent more than us of their GDP than we do on their military. Of course it would not be fair to say things are this simple but the point being: What we spend our money on in the military does little for sovereign interests of the Irish people. And part of the reason is that our military are yet another section of this country that we have lost control over the decision making process of.

A believe that a constructive Defence Force that works like the Swiss in the interests of its own people is the way forward.
1. Have you had experience? Do you know what it is like to serve or what the people in South Lebanon have gone through?
2. I have traveled throughout the Middle East on business. I have always been very well received by people from all sides. I have never had any problem going through airports there either. Upon presenting an Irish passport, I am always treated with respect. It is down to the men and women in blue berets who through their peacekeeping function have performed an ambassadorial function with local populations .... and it's good for business too. At numerous conferences, representatives from indigenous firms have on a number of occasions remarked about the impartiality and fairness of our soldiers in peacekeeping roles and the resultant respect they have for the Irish.

BTW i don't disagree with the thrust of your point about the Swiss. There is the opportunity to achieve greater social cohesion, national unity and pride through the military as well as a plethora of other value-added skills (leadership, logistics etc.) which are transferable and sought after by those of us in business.
 
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NewDawn1

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I like how they mined hundreds of strategic roads, tunnels and bridges to dissuade anyone from invading
'Moreover, tunnels and key bridges are built with tank traps. Tunnels are also primed with demolition charges to be used against invading forces. Permanent fortifications were established in the Alps, as bases from which to retake the fertile valleys after a potential invasion. They include underground air bases that are adjacent to normal runways; the aircraft, crew and supporting material are housed in the caverns.' Wikipedia

Pretty cool huh!
 

timhorgan

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Jun 27, 2010
Messages
4,034
Although our Defence Forces provide much practical help at home for example the armed escorts it seems to me that the vast majority of our purpose is to serve abroad on missions seemingly not much to do with us. Lets be honest, what has The Lebanon really got to do with Irish interests?
The only real reason that we are forced to spend money and time on peacekeeping is because the EU tells us we do not have another choice. In fact our 'Defence Policy' is determined by the EU.

Treaty of Lisbon/Article 1 - Treaty on European Union/Article 27 - Wikisource, the free online library

The Military of Switzerland is designed almost exclusively as a defence force. Their capacity to defence their borders is high. But more importantly its ability to 'put off' any foreign nation from invading it because of its highly militarised civilian population who are all well trained in sabotage in their immediate communities. In other words the world knows; invade Switzerland and the country will be ground to a halt within hours and your forces will be attacked relentlessly and in every area.

And here is the good news, the only spend about 0.2 percent more than us of their GDP than we do on the military. Of course it would not be fair to say things are this simple but the point being: What we spend our money on in the military does little for sovereign interests of the Irish people. And part of the reason is that our military are yet another section of this country that we have lost control over the decision making process of.

A believe that a constructive Defence Force that works like the Swiss in the interests of its own people is the way forward.
You are in good company. Michael Collins also wanted to model the new Irish Army on the Swiss concept of a citizen army.
 

Solus

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Aug 23, 2009
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10
A believe that a constructive Defence Force that works like the Swiss in the interests of its own people is the way forward.
Do you believe in Santy as well?
You would want to be looking at Central America for valid comparisons.
 

NewDawn1

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Jan 10, 2012
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1. Have you had experience? Do you know what it is like to serve or what the people in South Lebanon have gone through?
2. I have traveled throughout the Middle East on business. I have always been very well received by people from all sides. I have never had any problem going through airports there either. Upon presenting an Irish passport, I am always treated with respect. It is down to the men and women in blue berets who through their peacekeeping function have performed an ambassadorial function with local populations .... and it's good for business too. At numerous conferences, representatives from indigenous firms have on a number of occasions remarked about the impartiality and fairness of our soldiers in peacekeeping roles and the resultant respect they have for the Irish.
1. This is an annoymous forum.........enough said.
2. Firstly I do not really care what happens there. Secondly I think your missing my point. Why is that the Swiss have a far more stable economy than we do and yet they do not need to send soldiers to the Lebannon?
 

NewDawn1

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You are in good company. Michael Collins also wanted to model the new Irish Army on the Swiss concept of a citizen army.
Wow, I did not know that! You have given me some googling to do. :)
 

louis bernard

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Apr 6, 2008
Messages
2,709
Although our Defence Forces provide much practical help at home for example the armed escorts it seems to me that the vast majority of our purpose is to serve abroad on missions seemingly not much to do with us. Lets be honest, what has The Lebanon really got to do with Irish interests?
The only real reason that we are forced to spend money and time on peacekeeping is because the EU tells us we do not have another choice. In fact our 'Defence Policy' is determined by the EU.

Treaty of Lisbon/Article 1 - Treaty on European Union/Article 27 - Wikisource, the free online library

The Military of Switzerland is designed almost exclusively as a defence force. Their capacity to defence their borders is high. But more importantly its ability to 'put off' any foreign nation from invading it because of its highly militarised civilian population who are all well trained in sabotage in their immediate communities. In other words the world knows; invade Switzerland and the country will be ground to a halt within hours and your forces will be attacked relentlessly and in every area.

And here is the good news, the only spend about 0.2 percent more than us of their GDP than we do on the military. Of course it would not be fair to say things are this simple but the point being: What we spend our money on in the military does little for sovereign interests of the Irish people. And part of the reason is that our military are yet another section of this country that we have lost control over the decision making process of.

A believe that a constructive Defence Force that works like the Swiss in the interests of its own people is the way forward.
The EU could not give one tuppeny toss about our “defence policy”. Ireland is totally insignificant in a military sense. Our army has done a good job since independence as a bulwark against subversion but it is absolutely ridiculous that our UN missions abroad are subject to this “triple lock” nonsense which in effect means that Russia or China can decide if we send troops overseas or not.
 

Hungry Dodo

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637
'Moreover, tunnels and key bridges are built with tank traps. Tunnels are also primed with demolition charges to be used against invading forces. Permanent fortifications were established in the Alps, as bases from which to retake the fertile valleys after a potential invasion. They include underground air bases that are adjacent to normal runways; the aircraft, crew and supporting material are housed in the caverns.' Wikipedia

Pretty cool huh!
It hasn't been involved in a foreign war since 1515, has never been part of an empire and is not a member of NATO.

Commendable
 

Roberto Jordan

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Jun 28, 2012
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Wow, I did not know that! You have given me some googling to do. :)
I too cannot recall reading anything to that effect in Collins' writings However it would not suprise on the basis that like much of the planned/ hoped for/ suggested reform of the young state was interrupted by the civil war, existing vested interests rushing in, truceileers and the donning of FS allegiance by those previosuly "loyal".

Most often referenced is the courts structure & legal system.

Its not surpsing that so many institutions of state were modelled on our near neighbours & what had gone before, it was what many involved knew best, but it did mean we adopted methods & structures, in many areas, which were not designed/ had not evolved to work for a country of our size and needs...This , in my opinion, included the military and its relationship with the populous.
 

Ulster-Lad

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Oct 26, 2006
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I would wonder if the OP knows who actually funds, trains, and equips the Army for UN missions?
 

Nebuchadnezzar

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It hasn't been involved in a foreign war since 1515, has never been part of an empire and is not a member of NATO.

Commendable
Between 1940 and 1945, the German Reichsbank sold 1.3 billion francs worth of gold to Swiss Banks in exchange for Swiss francs and other foreign currency, which were used to buy strategically important raw materials like tungsten and oil from neutral countries. Hundreds of millions of francs worth of this gold was monetary gold plundered from the central banks of occupied countries. A total of 581,000 francs' worth of "Melmer" gold taken from Holocaust victims in eastern Europe was sold to Swiss banks

Switzerland during the World Wars - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Understandable but hardly commendable.
 

sparky42

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Joined
Jun 5, 2012
Messages
1,416
Although our Defence Forces provide much practical help at home for example the armed escorts it seems to me that the vast majority of our purpose is to serve abroad on missions seemingly not much to do with us. Lets be honest, what has The Lebanon really got to do with Irish interests?
The only real reason that we are forced to spend money and time on peacekeeping is because the EU tells us we do not have another choice. In fact our 'Defence Policy' is determined by the EU.

Treaty of Lisbon/Article 1 - Treaty on European Union/Article 27 - Wikisource, the free online library

The Military of Switzerland is designed almost exclusively as a defence force. Their capacity to defence their borders is high. But more importantly its ability to 'put off' any foreign nation from invading it because of its highly militarised civilian population who are all well trained in sabotage in their immediate communities. In other words the world knows; invade Switzerland and the country will be ground to a halt within hours and your forces will be attacked relentlessly and in every area.

And here is the good news, the only spend about 0.2 percent more than us of their GDP than we do on the military. Of course it would not be fair to say things are this simple but the point being: What we spend our money on in the military does little for sovereign interests of the Irish people. And part of the reason is that our military are yet another section of this country that we have lost control over the decision making process of.

A believe that a constructive Defence Force that works like the Swiss in the interests of its own people is the way forward.
Were we in the EU in 1960 when we sent troops into the Congo? Let me check, no no we weren't.

What have we lost control off? Given the Triple Lock mentioned the options for deploying Irish Forces is restricted.

What do you think our Naval Service does? Not much call for them in the Lebanon, and yet they still provide great service to the state? What do you think the Air Corps does providing Medical Flights all over the place?
 

Beavis

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Dec 15, 2011
Messages
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...and their landscape is a gigantic, almost insurmountable, advantage to the defender.
ours is pretty invasion friendly.
 

louis bernard

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Apr 6, 2008
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huh, they seem to have f18's and mirages.
so we're a bit off yet.
The Swiss have an air force; we don’t so no comparison there. The RAF is our de facto air force in case of any serious (very unlikely) international conflict that we may be dragged into.
 
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