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Catalpast

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To be fair there still are around 30,000-40,000 fluent Irish speakers in Ireland around 20,000 of who live in the Gaeltacht and I think it is reasonable for services to be provided or offered for them where they are available. I rang the Public Services Card Office last week and did my business as Gaeilge. There is no harm in services being made available dependent on there being Irish speakers to provide them and ask for them. And given that Irish is the oldest ancestral language and spoken by people still today I don't see a problem with it being our first or one of our two official national languages. I am well aware that it if Irish dies largely in the Gaeltacht within the next ten years (as has been predicted by two Údarás na Gaeltachta commissioned reports in recent years) that the playing pitch will change dramatically including, I think, in relation to the future of the Gaelscoileanna.
Sadly it over DJ - Irish will be gone within the next 20 years

Polish is now our 2nd language in reality
 

RodShaft

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Yea anyone disagreeing with some or certain Irish language policies is a West Brit. :roll: I am going to try to avoid this debate (on quotas for Irish speakers in the public sector) as it looks like bringing us back decades on debate about the position and future of the Irish language. :roll:
Colour me confused.

Who called anyone a West Brit?
 
D

Deleted member 39930

Your average sin feiner struggle with basic english so bringing Irish into the fray may be a step too far for peanut brains
I feel it is incumbent on me to point out that there are several egregious grammatical errors with your post.

Sinn Feiner
Struggles
Your average? This implies that the reader owns several sin (sic) fein members. You mean "the average".
It's also traditional to end sentences in a full stop.

But other than that, your observations about language abilities are noted.
 

DJP

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Colour me confused.

Who called anyone a West Brit?
You explained the opinion a lot of people have or would have against 1) compulsory Irish for the Leaving Cert 2) big quotas for Irish speakers in the public sector and 3) Irish being a full working language of the EU and 200 translators as:

a carryover of an anglosphere attitude dating from the 1300s.
 

statsman

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Again: want vs need. If there’s 900k Irish speakers who can speak fluent English then you don’t need to introduce new standards. I may want to because it suits a cultural or political objective of mine, but that’s a different thing.

If there’s 90k Irish speakers who can’t speak English then you need to.

The civil service is generally operating at bare bones levels right now. Any euro suggested for a “want” project can be better spent on a “need” project.
Number of Irish speakers who can't speak English = ~0. There is no absolute need.
 

Emily Davison

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So why do most people in Ireland not speak Irish?
Because they don’t need to, not ever. It is basically dead much as you don’t want it to be so. One of my brothers went to an Irish speaking secondary school and I’ve never heard him speak a word of Irish since and not even with other lads that went there with him. My husbands first language was Irish, that ended when he was four years old and went to primary school, in the Gaeltacht. Two of his older siblings can still speak a bit, but none of their children can. And one of them was a school principal.

His cousin, a teacher, has to send emails in Irish to her school principal, she objects to this, despite telling us she’s pro Irish.

Now you explain all of that to me!
 

RodShaft

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You explained the opinion a lot of people have or would have against 1) compulsory Irish for the Leaving Cert 2) big quotas for Irish speakers in the public sector and 3) Irish being a full working language of the EU and 200 translators as:
But it is.

English speakers are peculiar in their resistance to other languages. They are legendary for it.

That attitude first manifested itself in Ireland in the 1300s as far as I can see.

Not sure how that equates to West Brit.

More to the point, that comment wasn't the post you were replying to. It looks an awful lot like having made the comment, you went looking for something to justify it.
 

JCR

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It would make far more sense to make it compulsory that civil servants should have at least one other European language. Making Irish compulsory in any way, with any kind of quota, is just another waste of time at the expense of pursuits that actually have pragmatic value and move society forward in this, the 21st century.
 

DJP

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Because they don’t need to, not ever. It is basically dead much as you don’t want it to be so. One of my brothers went to an Irish speaking secondary school and I’ve never heard him speak a word of Irish since and not even with other lads that went there with him. My husbands first language was Irish, that ended when he was four years old and went to primary school, in the Gaeltacht. Two of his older siblings can still speak a bit, but none of their children can. And one of them was a school principal.

His cousin, a teacher, has to send emails in Irish to her school principal, she objects to this, despite telling us she’s pro Irish.

Now you explain all of that to me!
Yea there is a litterment of stories to show that Irish is dead but there is also a litterment of stories that show that Irish is alive. There are four of us in my family and three of us speak Irish fluently (I am about 70% fluent compared to my Mam and my sister who are over 90%/95% fluent). My Dad's first cousin from Dublin did his pre-school, primary and second level through Irish in Dublin and is now raising his family through Irish in the Gaeltacht. My Mams Dad and my Dads Mam were fluent Irish speakers (although they are both dead now). My first cousin is heavily involved in that Irish speaking GAA club in Dublin and he didn't go to gaelscoileanna. I have another first cousin who is just finished his second level education through Irish (he didn't go to a gaelscoil for primary) and I have another couple of cousins who went to gaelscoileanna. Irish is alive in my family and it is alive in hundreds if not thousands of other families. I know it is dead in a lot of families but that doesn't mean that it is dead in general and repeatedly saying it is is a lie. It may be barely alive on this website vis a vis the Gaeilge forum but people still speak it.
 

DJP

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But it is.

English speakers are peculiar in their resistance to other languages. They are legendary for it.

That attitude first manifested itself in Ireland in the 1300s as far as I can see.

Not sure how that equates to West Brit.

More to the point, that comment wasn't the post you were replying to. It looks an awful lot like having made the comment, you went looking for something to justify it.
Oh so you explain why most people in Ireland don't speak Irish as:

Mostly the reconquest of Ireland started by Elizabeth I (1600) and carried on by James VI of Scotland once he became James II of England.

Immediately prior to Elizabeth I there were fears for the survival of English in Ireland.

Making English the administrative day to day language and planting the most Gaelic region of Ireland (Ulster) did the trick and led inexorably to where we are today.
But you are not calling them West Brits.

Why don't you speak Irish?
 

Emily Davison

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Darren I'm not anti Irish, I think you know that. My children are bilingual and the eldest now speaks a third language as I went to the expense of it, six months in another country. If Irish people were in any way serious about Irish it should have

A) been made compulsory in school, as the speaking and working language
b) the only way to get a civil service job from a certain date, so as not to be unfair to adults who never has the chance to learn Irish
C) all sign each in Irish, no English
D) proper to and radio in Irish,not RTE since forever.

Etc etc

The Irish in schools in Ireland is a joke, I was the best in my class and not one of us did honours in it.
 

DJP

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Darren I'm not anti Irish, I think you know that. My children are bilingual and the eldest now speaks a third language as I went to the expense of it, six months in another country.

...

The Irish in schools in Ireland is a joke, I was the best in my class and not one of us did honours in it.
Your stories don't show that Irish is basically dead.
 

Mick Mac

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A modest proposal but it will run into two groups of opposition.

Why can't the state fund irish speaking play schools so that kids end up learning some Irish before they realize there not supposed to.

This will also help solve the issue of childcare which is an ongoing problem.

Likely objectors will be the neo liberals who don't want state involvement in anything. So put it out to public tender and make the fuccers deliver.

It will also outrage the paycheck progressives who'll regard it as ethno something and cultural imperialism or such shyte so solve that be setting up a consultation board and letting the most outraged give their input to shape the policies while naturally drawing their stipend.
 

Emily Davison

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Your stories don't show that Irish is basically dead.
The evidence is literally all around you. You go anywhere today and tell me how you get on at Dunnes, Starbucks, woodies speaking in Irish and come back to me. Try speaking to a leaving cert student with a simple phrase other than what's your name and you'll see.
 

Mick Mac

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Darren I'm not anti Irish, I think you know that. My children are bilingual and the eldest now speaks a third language as I went to the expense of it, six months in another country. If Irish people were in any way serious about Irish it should have

A) been made compulsory in school, as the speaking and working language
b) the only way to get a civil service job from a certain date, so as not to be unfair to adults who never has the chance to learn Irish
C) all sign each in Irish, no English
D) proper to and radio in Irish,not RTE since forever.

Etc etc

The Irish in schools in Ireland is a joke, I was the best in my class and not one of us did honours in it.
The teaching of Irish is a joke. But so is the whole approach. We don't have a department of irish. We have a department of the gaeltacht. That right there is indicative of the mistaken attitude.
 

DJP

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Emily Davison

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The teaching of Irish is a joke. But so is the whole approach. We don't have a department of irish. We have a department of the gaeltacht. That right there is indicative of the mistaken attitude.

I agree with you, and I know it better than most as I live abroad. I also know about the Uderas as my husband's uncle got on it thanks to politics, junkets is all I saw. But at least he could speak Irish, unlike his child who pretends to be pro Irish, but isn't serious, in my opinion.

People talk the talk, and lie about it. They dnt put any effort into it. Even Darren on here says he's only 70%. I was shocked at that.
 

Mick Mac

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I agree with you, and I know it better than most as I live abroad. I also know about the Uderas as my husband's uncle got on it thanks to politics, junkets is all I saw. But at least he could speak Irish, unlike his child who pretends to be pro Irish, but isn't serious, in my opinion.

People talk the talk, and lie about it. They dnt put any effort into it. Even Darren on here says he's only 70%. I was shocked at that.
Yeah ,but his irish is good. What most would call fluent is what I understand Darren to have but Darren if I may I understand your description of 70% to be real deep knowledge of the language.

But Emily Darren does interviews in Irish.
 

Mick Mac

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Darren I'm not anti Irish, I think you know that. My children are bilingual and the eldest now speaks a third language as I went to the expense of it, six months in another country. If Irish people were in any way serious about Irish it should have

A) been made compulsory in school, as the speaking and working language
b) the only way to get a civil service job from a certain date, so as not to be unfair to adults who never has the chance to learn Irish
C) all sign each in Irish, no English
D) proper to and radio in Irish,not RTE since forever.

Etc etc

The Irish in schools in Ireland is a joke, I was the best in my class and not one of us did honours in it.
That's not going to work.

There are next to no playschools in irish in this country. I know the attitude of an neo liberal govt parents with kids is fucc you it's your choice we'll do what were compelled to do so I'm not hugely hopeful but I'd like to see 200 playschools across this country in Irish.

Not compelling to speak it as adults. Realistic approach v non realistic.
 

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