Should social housing be in socially mixed areas or specific social housing developments?



bob3344

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Terrible idea.

Ultimate slap in the face to the mortgage holder. Work 30 years to pay off a mortgage while the guy next door scratches his hole cos he's 'disadvantaged'.

Yeah your property will reduce in value but you'll get the satisfaction of civilising the disadvantaged as well, they can't be left on their own you know.

Honestly, fk right off.
 

Disillusioned democrat

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Knowing who your neighbours is also something that is essential......

No amount of community policing will work if you don't have a community to begin with....
To be honest no new development can achieve "knowing your neighbour" with out the inherent risk of just transplanting an entire population to a new location...that's one lesson we should learn from Ballymum at least.

Certainly building a community centre and a GAA/IRFU/IFA affiliated club(s) FIRST would be a good way to accelerate the process - maybe there are other ways?
 

Franzoni

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What do you mean by this, Fran?

Unless you buy in a house in an area where you have lived earlier, it's difficult to know what an area is like to live in otherwise.
But even areas do change over time too.

One strategy might be to rent a house in a locality first, before buying a house in that same locality.
From working on new developments and then being back there maybe going back to fix snags or routine maintenance and getting to know people i found it shocking that quite a lot of people didn't know their next door neighbours.....

I suppose the 21st century work/life balance is different to previous generations but i think this is an issue a lot of people on these threads don't take into account....

The reason why the city centre as bad as it was years ago is now looked upon as maybe now quite so bad as we had previously thought isn't down to Lugs Brannigan issuing a few clatters but because there were communities who kept a lid of things to a certain extent and you had people working and providing leadership as role
models....i got my start in the the pipefitting business thanks to a neighbour...we looked out for each other ....

The Hipsters living there now couldn't keep a lid on a tin of biscuits....
 

Disillusioned democrat

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Well, it could. But then there is the counter argument that it's not fair, the government never put social housing into the posh areas and instead "dump" it on the poorer areas.
There's two houses being renovated in Dun Laoghaire as social houses right by the pier that I and many others would donate a kidney for - it's not fair to say "never".
 

Disillusioned democrat

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Terrible idea.

Ultimate slap in the face to the mortgage holder. Work 30 years to pay off a mortgage while the guy next door scratches his hole cos he's 'disadvantaged'.

Yeah your property will reduce in value but you'll get the satisfaction of civilising the disadvantaged as well, they can't be left on their own you know.

Honestly, fk right off.
So what's the answer?
 

talkingshop

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Terrible idea.

Ultimate slap in the face to the mortgage holder. Work 30 years to pay off a mortgage while the guy next door scratches his hole cos he's 'disadvantaged'.

Yeah your property will reduce in value but you'll get the satisfaction of civilising the disadvantaged as well, they can't be left on their own you know.

Honestly, fk right off.
But if you don't "civilise the disadvantaged" as you put it, you will pay in another way for the social problems created by large local authority developments. And your property won't reduce in value if it was a mixed development from the start.

Also having more of these mixed developments will provide more options for your own children when they are looking to buy starter homes - many people who would be unwilling to buy in areas of massive local authority (or even ex-local authority) housing would be willing to buy in these mixed developments. It's a good plan instead of creating ghettos of the future.

Anyway, it's happening, apparently...
 

wexfordman

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Social housing should be mixed, not ghetto-ised, but it should be provided to those who need it, for the term that they need it, or at least the rent of the premises should be related to the means of the tennant. So, if a tennant on social housing gets a premises at a reduced rent due to income limits, then as the tennants means improve, the rent should begin to approach market rent rates in conjunction.

I also think rent to buy, or tennant purchase schemes should have some form of clawback if the premises is later sold at a profit.
 

Not The End Of The World

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Terrible idea.

Ultimate slap in the face to the mortgage holder. Work 30 years to pay off a mortgage while the guy next door scratches his hole cos he's 'disadvantaged'.

Yeah your property will reduce in value but you'll get the satisfaction of civilising the disadvantaged as well, they can't be left on their own you know.

Honestly, fk right off.
Well, get use to it. It's happening and will continue to do so. You have the ability to buy your house, your neighbour doesn't. Of course you think he is living the life of riley on benefits. Take it from me, I've been unemployed and renting (1980s) and now own. It's no party being disadvantaged.
 

toughbutfair

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I believe social housing to be immoral, but it’s less bad if they are all together, it muxed with people who bought their homes. They should also be less nice .

They shouldn’t be built in Dublin as too expensive here, the midlands seems an obvious option.
 

Franzoni

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To be honest no new development can achieve "knowing your neighbour" with out the inherent risk of just transplanting an entire population to a new location...that's one lesson we should learn from Ballymum at least.

Certainly building a community centre and a GAA/IRFU/IFA affiliated club(s) FIRST would be a good way to accelerate the process - maybe there are other ways?
At the danger of being accused as being negative you do realise that there may well be no solution to this problem without a serious sea change in attitude across society..

As cleverer people than me have pointed out in the past a house is made of bricks and mortar and a home is something else entirely...
 

toughbutfair

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Also, these neighborhoods should be a mixture of 1,2 and 3 beds, as you move through the various stages of life you get moved from one to another with minimal disruption
 

Disillusioned democrat

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Social housing should be mixed, not ghetto-ised, but it should be provided to those who need it, for the term that they need it, or at least the rent of the premises should be related to the means of the tennant. So, if a tennant on social housing gets a premises at a reduced rent due to income limits, then as the tennants means improve, the rent should begin to approach market rent rates in conjunction.

I also think rent to buy, or tennant purchase schemes should have some form of clawback if the premises is later sold at a profit.
Two great points!!

What many people find most toxic about social homes is the sense that it's a free "forever" home as opposed to home for a period of particular need - couple with kids near school vs older couple/widow(er) with kids moved out.
 

talkingshop

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Social housing should be mixed, not ghetto-ised, but it should be provided to those who need it, for the term that they need it, or at least the rent of the premises should be related to the means of the tennant. So, if a tennant on social housing gets a premises at a reduced rent due to income limits, then as the tennants means improve, the rent should begin to approach market rent rates in conjunction.

I also think rent to buy, or tennant purchase schemes should have some form of clawback if the premises is later sold at a profit.
In theory the rent is related to the income of the tenant, but the problem is it doesn't go up enough, at all, when the tenant's income rises.

Tenant purchase schemes do have a clawback, but the problem is they were being sold at something like a 40% discount.

Tenant purchase should be abolished in my view except in very exceptional circumstances - e.g. if a particular local estate is starting to go downhill rapidly, there's an argument that selling off some houses to the tenants who will take some pride in the estate is a good idea.
 

toughbutfair

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How can anyone justify the person getting up early , going through traffic to work and getting home in the evening having the same house as his neighbour who doesn’t work?
 

bob3344

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But if you don't "civilise the disadvantaged" as you put it, you will pay in another way for the social problems created by large local authority developments.
Won't affect me, will affect those living there.

Did Ballymun affect me when I was growing up ? No.

We're living in a schizo country. Some people pay for everything, loads pay for nothing & priests cry tears for them on the radio every day.
 

toughbutfair

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In Spain, the knickers get moved out to the outskirts and most neighborhoods are therefore very nice. Far better system
 

Disillusioned democrat

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I believe social housing to be immoral, but it’s less bad if they are all together, it muxed with people who bought their homes. They should also be less nice .

They shouldn’t be built in Dublin as too expensive here, the midlands seems an obvious option.
About the ONLY interesting thing about RTE's latest Dermot Bannon brain fart about homes in New York was the 2 mins on NYC realising that it needs affordable housing in the heart of the city with the most expensive real estate on the planet.

At a very basic level - the lad making your coffee at 6:30am for minimum wage won't be there if he has to commute 2 hours to get to work.
 


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