Should the Irish Language be compulsory in schools?

JDLK

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Evil Eco-Fascist said:
JDLK said:
(Topic shamelessly lifted from Adrian Kennedy phone show, I only caught the last few mins of what sounded like an interesting debate though)
I can only imagine the intellectual and though-provoking contributions made on the subject by those involved.

"Oirish is f*ckin' shi'e!"

Everytime you listen to Adrian Kennedy, God kills a kitten.
Hahaha, I was thinking the same but there was actually a fluent Irish speaker on it who loved the language and advocated having it removed from being compulsory- he argued that forcing it on people just made them hate it all the more and ultimately did more damage- which I thought was a good point
 


Riadach

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Alliance said:
JDLK said:
I have to agree, the lack of interest is a huge factor but does that stem from it not being a practical asset or from resentment attained by by having it forced upon us.

From my point of view I always hated it in school, but at the same time Ive heard of the resurgance of it amongst kids by the modern trend of sending kids to "Irish" schools- you know the ones I mean
I know a lot of people are now sending their kids to Irish schools thesedays. Seems to be the "new thing", however you have to ask the question: what good does it do? They leave school and then what? We're not going to suddenly turn around and have Irish at work. Kids aren't going to speak Irish to their mates on a saturday night.

You don't learn Irish in school, you reguritate some nonsensical rhyme that you learnt off after repeating it 200000 times. If someone wants to send their child to learn Irish, than thats fine with me. I don't mind paying my taxes for them to do so. Likewise though I reserve the right for my child NOT to learn Irish. Prehaps if Irish wasn't put up there as some kind of Irish holy grail which you need to be a good Irishman, then people would feel less coerced and more enthuastic. After all, enthuasism is what you need to learn a langauge above all else.
Exactly what century were you taught in?
 

JDLK

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Alliance said:
JDLK said:
I have to agree, the lack of interest is a huge factor but does that stem from it not being a practical asset or from resentment attained by by having it forced upon us.

From my point of view I always hated it in school, but at the same time Ive heard of the resurgance of it amongst kids by the modern trend of sending kids to "Irish" schools- you know the ones I mean
I know a lot of people are now sending their kids to Irish schools thesedays. Seems to be the "new thing", however you have to ask the question: what good does it do? They leave school and then what? We're not going to suddenly turn around and have Irish at work. Kids aren't going to speak Irish to their mates on a saturday night.

You don't learn Irish in school, you reguritate some nonsensical rhyme that you learnt off after repeating it 200000 times. If someone wants to send their child to learn Irish, than thats fine with me. I don't mind paying my taxes for them to do so. Likewise though I reserve the right for my child NOT to learn Irish. Prehaps if Irish wasn't put up there as some kind of Irish holy grail which you need to be a good Irishman, then people would feel less coerced and more enthuastic. After all, enthuasism is what you need to learn a langauge above all else.
I agree that the irish language has been hijacked by some kind of nationalist hierarchy of Irishmen as a stamp of Irish authenticity. I think its pretty obvious its never going to become the national language again (in the practical sence) but is it dead?? Is it time to bury it?
 

Riadach

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JDLK said:
Alliance said:
JDLK said:
I have to agree, the lack of interest is a huge factor but does that stem from it not being a practical asset or from resentment attained by by having it forced upon us.

From my point of view I always hated it in school, but at the same time Ive heard of the resurgance of it amongst kids by the modern trend of sending kids to "Irish" schools- you know the ones I mean
I know a lot of people are now sending their kids to Irish schools thesedays. Seems to be the "new thing", however you have to ask the question: what good does it do? They leave school and then what? We're not going to suddenly turn around and have Irish at work. Kids aren't going to speak Irish to their mates on a saturday night.

You don't learn Irish in school, you reguritate some nonsensical rhyme that you learnt off after repeating it 200000 times. If someone wants to send their child to learn Irish, than thats fine with me. I don't mind paying my taxes for them to do so. Likewise though I reserve the right for my child NOT to learn Irish. Prehaps if Irish wasn't put up there as some kind of Irish holy grail which you need to be a good Irishman, then people would feel less coerced and more enthuastic. After all, enthuasism is what you need to learn a langauge above all else.
I agree that the irish language has been hijacked by some kind of nationalist hierarchy of Irishmen as a stamp of Irish authenticity. I think its pretty obvious its never going to become the national language again (in the practical sence) but is it dead?? Is it time to bury it?
It only takes a generation to revive a language. What's required is a motivation.
 

Ard-Taoiseach

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Riadach said:
JDLK said:
Alliance said:
JDLK said:
I have to agree, the lack of interest is a huge factor but does that stem from it not being a practical asset or from resentment attained by by having it forced upon us.

From my point of view I always hated it in school, but at the same time Ive heard of the resurgance of it amongst kids by the modern trend of sending kids to "Irish" schools- you know the ones I mean
I know a lot of people are now sending their kids to Irish schools thesedays. Seems to be the "new thing", however you have to ask the question: what good does it do? They leave school and then what? We're not going to suddenly turn around and have Irish at work. Kids aren't going to speak Irish to their mates on a saturday night.

You don't learn Irish in school, you reguritate some nonsensical rhyme that you learnt off after repeating it 200000 times. If someone wants to send their child to learn Irish, than thats fine with me. I don't mind paying my taxes for them to do so. Likewise though I reserve the right for my child NOT to learn Irish. Prehaps if Irish wasn't put up there as some kind of Irish holy grail which you need to be a good Irishman, then people would feel less coerced and more enthuastic. After all, enthuasism is what you need to learn a langauge above all else.
I agree that the irish language has been hijacked by some kind of nationalist hierarchy of Irishmen as a stamp of Irish authenticity. I think its pretty obvious its never going to become the national language again (in the practical sence) but is it dead?? Is it time to bury it?
It only takes a generation to revive a language. What's required is a motivation.
Indeed, Israel leads the way in this regard.
 

Alliance

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JDLK said:
Alliance said:
JDLK said:
I have to agree, the lack of interest is a huge factor but does that stem from it not being a practical asset or from resentment attained by by having it forced upon us.

From my point of view I always hated it in school, but at the same time Ive heard of the resurgance of it amongst kids by the modern trend of sending kids to "Irish" schools- you know the ones I mean
I know a lot of people are now sending their kids to Irish schools thesedays. Seems to be the "new thing", however you have to ask the question: what good does it do? They leave school and then what? We're not going to suddenly turn around and have Irish at work. Kids aren't going to speak Irish to their mates on a saturday night.

You don't learn Irish in school, you reguritate some nonsensical rhyme that you learnt off after repeating it 200000 times. If someone wants to send their child to learn Irish, than thats fine with me. I don't mind paying my taxes for them to do so. Likewise though I reserve the right for my child NOT to learn Irish. Prehaps if Irish wasn't put up there as some kind of Irish holy grail which you need to be a good Irishman, then people would feel less coerced and more enthuastic. After all, enthuasism is what you need to learn a langauge above all else.
I agree that the irish language has been hijacked by some kind of nationalist hierarchy of Irishmen as a stamp of Irish authenticity. I think its pretty obvious its never going to become the national language again (in the practical sence) but is it dead?? Is it time to bury it?
I wouldn't bury the thing, but give it to those who want it and let the rest of us get on with things. Theres enough geniunely interested people out there like Riadach, to probably actually do more good for the language by themselves than it could ever be if left as it is.

Exactly what century were you taught in?
Mate, I went to secondary school in the 90's (til 98). It's how I was "taught" Irish the whole way from primary to second level.
 

JDLK

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Constant reciting of verbs in all their tenses was all I ever did in Irish class, and we all had to stand up when we did it for some reason?? I think it was some mild form of brainwashing to be honest
 

Riadach

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Mate, I went to secondary school in the 90's (til 98). It's how I was "taught" Irish the whole way from primary to second level.
So you are working on two assumptions.

1 That the way Irish was taught to you, is the way it was taught to everyone. It was not, for example, the way I was taught the language.

2 That the way Irish was taught to you has not been changed sinced 1998.
The cognitive constructivist-based communicative syllabus, has since replaced the behavioural based direct method which you seem to have described.
 

Riadach

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JDLK said:
Constant reciting of verbs in all their tenses was all I ever did in Irish class, and we all had to stand up when we did it for some reason?? I think it was some mild form of brainwashing to be honest
What age and what year?
 

JDLK

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Riadach said:
JDLK said:
Constant reciting of verbs in all their tenses was all I ever did in Irish class, and we all had to stand up when we did it for some reason?? I think it was some mild form of brainwashing to be honest
What age and what year?
What age? Well I would have been about 4 or 5 when I started school

Jusyt kiddin, it would have been about 84
 

Riadach

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JDLK said:
Riadach said:
JDLK said:
Constant reciting of verbs in all their tenses was all I ever did in Irish class, and we all had to stand up when we did it for some reason?? I think it was some mild form of brainwashing to be honest
What age and what year?
What age? Well I would have been about 4 or 5 when I started school

Jusyt kiddin, it would have been about 84
The end or the start?
 

JDLK

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Apologies, I started school in 84
 

Riadach

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JDLK said:
Apologies, I started school in 84
Rather similar to myself, but radically different experience. Tell me you didn't endure this in secondary school.
 

JDLK

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Riadach said:
JDLK said:
Apologies, I started school in 84
Rather similar to myself, but radically different experience. Tell me you didn't endure this in secondary school.
To be honest I think secondary school may have been a little better than primary but at that stage I had pretty much given up on it and the auld resentment had settled in big time and I was reasonable student aswell- I got a B in the leaving cert (can tremeber now if it was Ordinary or honours)

I actually looked into it again recently, just out of personal interest ya know?
 

Pidge

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Some people love Irish, and that's great for them. I like the language, but I didn't like learning it. Speaking Irish isn't something I find interesting or useful, and there's an incredible sense of frustration (especially after the Junior Cert) with having to spend a significant amount of time on something in which you see no purpose or utility.

By forcing people, who, after the JC we allow to make of their most educational choices, to keep up a language, you antagonise people towards that language. It becomes merely a subject in school. That doesn't happen with French, or German, because there's an obvious and irrefutable relevance there. That's not the case with Irish, and I resent being forced to learn something in order to satisfy some notion of nationalism.
 

Riadach

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Pidge said:
Some people love Irish, and that's great for them. I like the language, but I didn't like learning it. Speaking Irish isn't something I find interesting or useful, and there's an incredible sense of frustration (especially after the Junior Cert) with having to spend a significant amount of time on something in which you see no purpose or utility.

By forcing people, who, after the JC we allow to make of their most educational choices, to keep up a language, you antagonise people towards that language. It becomes merely a subject in school. That doesn't happen with French, or German, because there's an obvious and irrefutable relevance there. That's not the case with Irish, and I resent being forced to learn something in order to satisfy some notion of nationalism.

Do you ever think that the relevance and utility of German or French may be overemphasised?
 

joel

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Pidge said:
Some people love Irish, and that's great for them. I like the language, but I didn't like learning it. Speaking Irish isn't something I find interesting or useful, and there's an incredible sense of frustration (especially after the Junior Cert) with having to spend a significant amount of time on something in which you see no purpose or utility.

By forcing people, who, after the JC we allow to make of their most educational choices, to keep up a language, you antagonise people towards that language. It becomes merely a subject in school. That doesn't happen with French, or German, because there's an obvious and irrefutable relevance there. That's not the case with Irish, and I resent being forced to learn something in order to satisfy some notion of nationalism.

Quite disgraceful and inexcusable - Irish is the first language of the Irish state.
 

Pidge

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Riadach said:
Pidge said:
Some people love Irish, and that's great for them. I like the language, but I didn't like learning it. Speaking Irish isn't something I find interesting or useful, and there's an incredible sense of frustration (especially after the Junior Cert) with having to spend a significant amount of time on something in which you see no purpose or utility.

By forcing people, who, after the JC we allow to make of their most educational choices, to keep up a language, you antagonise people towards that language. It becomes merely a subject in school. That doesn't happen with French, or German, because there's an obvious and irrefutable relevance there. That's not the case with Irish, and I resent being forced to learn something in order to satisfy some notion of nationalism.

Do you ever think that the relevance and utility of German or French may be overemphasised?
Yes.

joel said:
Quite disgraceful and inexcusable - Irish is the first language of the Irish state.
And without meaning to lump in Riadach etc with him, this is exactly the kind of rubbish you come across all the time. "You can't not speak Irish, it's the first language of the Irish state" - akin to arguing "You can't legalise prostitution - it's illegal!"
 

OldDog

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Whoever wants to learn it, should be encouraged and rewarded.
However equally, those who have no interest, should not be penalised or flogged with it.

Those who have the aptitude for it, definately should indulge in it and have full support, but it should not be a burden on those uninterested.

The same should go for any language "within reason", but a little extra emphasis and encouragement for irish would be nice.

But no, it should not be compulsary!
 


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