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Should the Order of St. Patrick be revived?


FloatingVoterTralee

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Since independence, periodic discussions have debated the proper manner in which to honour citizens who have rendered noteworthy service to the Irish State. One option might be to revive the Order of St. Patrick, which has never been formally abolished, but merely in a state of abeyance for the last 90 years. Of course, question marks remain over whether the Irish government has the authority to repatriate the Order, and thus confer the award, but in the event that the honour's monarchical associations prove too controversial, might the debate spark the introduction of a republican award system, modelled on the Legion d'Honneur or the Medal of Honour?
 

Sister Mercedes

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Anything would be better than Irish Universities demeaning all of their Alumni by showering Honorary Doctorates on every Tom, Dick and Harry.
 

RobertW

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Under no circumstances should awards in this country be offered by the state to anyone.

Would you really want the likes of Bertie Ahern, Larry Goodman, Michael Fingleton, Sean Fitzpatrick, David Drumm, Eoghan Harris presently in possession of such an honour (as they surely would be given this country)?
 

Heligoland

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What sort of person would we have awarded it to in, say, the period between 2002 and 2007?

Because while I'm all for handing out medals and trinkets to the golf partners of politicians, we might need to think about a way of taking them back off them too.

 

grumpydunphy

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Is there an Order of St Jude?
Dunno.....but I heard Sean Barrett has a default "Order Order Order" order when yer man with the unironed shirt in the back benches stands up for a question or two..... petunia
 

Toland

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Since independence, periodic discussions have debated the proper manner in which to honour citizens who have rendered noteworthy service to the Irish State. One option might be to revive the Order of St. Patrick, which has never been formally abolished, but merely in a state of abeyance for the last 90 years. Of course, question marks remain over whether the Irish government has the authority to repatriate the Order, and thus confer the award, but in the event that the honour's monarchical associations prove too controversial, might the debate spark the introduction of a republican award system, modelled on the Legion d'Honneur or the Medal of Honour?
Under that name, no.
 

Cruimh

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Since independence, periodic discussions have debated the proper manner in which to honour citizens who have rendered noteworthy service to the Irish State. One option might be to revive the Order of St. Patrick, which has never been formally abolished, but merely in a state of abeyance for the last 90 years. Of course, question marks remain over whether the Irish government has the authority to repatriate the Order, and thus confer the award, but in the event that the honour's monarchical associations prove too controversial, might the debate spark the introduction of a republican award system, modelled on the Legion d'Honneur or the Medal of Honour?
Patrick seems to have been a thoroughly unpleasant misogynist - so it would be appropriately inappropriate.
 

Cruimh

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Under no circumstances should awards in this country be offered by the state to anyone.

Would you really want the likes of Bertie Ahern, Larry Goodman, Michael Fingleton, Sean Fitzpatrick, David Drumm, Eoghan Harris presently in possession of such an honour (as they surely would be given this country)?
Bertie already holds a Gong from the Vatican.
 

The Field Marshal

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AFAIK there is a constitutional prohibition on the awarding of any titles by the state. Best let sleeping dogs lie. It's Ireland you are talking about .
 

carruthers

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Under no circumstances should awards in this country be offered by the state to anyone.

Would you really want the likes of Bertie Ahern, Larry Goodman, Michael Fingleton, Sean Fitzpatrick, David Drumm, Eoghan Harris presently in possession of such an honour (as they surely would be given this country)?
This exactly. It would be tarnished beyond redemption almost as soon as it was introduced. The Order of the Maple Ten...
 

Heligoland

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What about a politics.ie award night?

A night in the Burlington, sponsored by AIB of course, with categories like "most despised politician", "biggest liar" (Ireland and International), and "most unearned pension", all voted for by the registered members of this site.

We could call them "the Berties" for short.
 
Last edited:

mr. jings

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Not in favour of titles or honorifics myself, for what it's worth.
 
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Never.

Honours should never be allowed in a Republic. The legion d'honneur is a blight on France's reublican credentials.

One of the obvious problems is the type of people who would have been given one.
 

The Field Marshal

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Under that name, no.
St Patrick brought the true faith to the Irish. 84% of them still follow it 1584 years later. Your anti religious prejudice has now transmuted to quibbling about nomenclature and a title most of your former countrymen would be pleased to accept :roll: How petty can you get?
 

corelli

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I think some form of system should be introduced, and the Constitution does allow this, as long as we did not try to import some idea of aristocracy.

As for the argument that Bertie would have been awarded it, this is also true, but think on this. Can you imagine our pleasure seeing him stripped of it!!
 

Skeptic Angel

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AFAIK there is a constitutional prohibition on the awarding of any titles by the state.
Yes Article 40.2. And a good job too IMHO.

BUNREACHT NA hIREANN

Article 40

1. All citizens shall, as human persons, be held equal before the law.

This shall not be held to mean that the State shall not in its enactments have due regard to differences of capacity, physical and moral, and of social function.

2. 1° Titles of nobility shall not be conferred by the State.

2° No title of nobility or of honour may be accepted by any citizen except with the prior approval of the Government.
 

FloatingVoterTralee

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But that was surely inserted in order that no Irish person could style themselves as Duke, Marquis etc, not so that people who, for instance, did charitable work, or had a lifetime of accomplishment in sport, arts, etc, couldn't be recognised for their endeavours?
 

corelli

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But that was surely inserted in order that no Irish person could style themselves as Duke, Marquis etc, not so that people who, for instance, did charitable work, or had a lifetime of accomplishment in sport, arts, etc, couldn't be recognised for their endeavours?
Yes, there is no reason why a Statutory system which recognises a person cannot be done as long as it does not confer a title or honor. The constitution would allow that no problem. Perhaps a Statutory Presidential Award scheme, in a few grades. Perhaps leave it to the Council of State and President to award it.
 
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