Should the Roma have their own Homeland?

LTGuy

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Housewifey said:
I wonder if anyone has studied them, talked to them, asked them what they want. Maybe they don't want anything different from what they have?
Surprisingly, there are two categories of Gypsies (let's call them by their proper name, enough of this "politically correct" silliness!): sedentiary and nomads. Sedentiary Gypsies are just like any normal nation - I saw them in Hungary and Slovakia - just smallholding farmers, tidy houses and nothing exceptional about them, just darker skin. Some Polish Gypsies even managed to accumulate considerable wealth, becoming Poland's "robber barons" based in Lodz. When you come to this second biggest city you are immediately taken aback by [now crumbling] astonishing art-deco villas belonging to local Gypsies. They prospered on the back of 19th century's textile mills. And then you have those nomads. Actually sedentiary Gypsies don't get along with nomads very well; it appears they belong to different tribes whose ways parted very long time ago.
 


alanp

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Roma is a politically correct term for Knacker/Traveller - the fact of the matter is their claim to have a unique culture is totally bogus. All of our ancesters lived in caves and mudhuts at one point then moved up the scale but do we demand to live in a mud hut now because it's part of our 'tradition'. Do we f**k.

And you're an ignorant racist ****. Do you have any concept of how different the cultural heritage of travellers and Romas is ? Obviously not,
you just want want to spew hate on an internet bulletin board.
 

blucey

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bill_e said:
Roma is a politically correct term for Knacker/Traveller - the fact of the matter is their claim to have a unique culture is totally bogus. All of our ancesters lived in caves and mudhuts at one point then moved up the scale but do we demand to live in a mud hut now because it's part of our 'tradition'. Do we f**k.

And you're an ignorant racist ********* *********. Do you have any concept of how different the cultural heritage of travellers and Romas is ? Obviously not,
you just want want to spew hate on an internet bulletin board.
Does it matter how different it is? "its cultural" is not an excuse for some of the antics our nomadic friends get up to. Its their culture to allow small infants to be used as pawns in the freezing weather to engender sympathy in the hope of getting some cash. Its my culture to say that thats barbaric, and I would love to see the cops arrest the mother and father, charge them with the appropriate offense (child endangerment? neglect? whatever it is), put the wee wain into care and move along to the next issue. Its cultural to allow mounds of rubbish pile up and complain that place is smelling like a rubbish dump. Its my culture to hire a skip and to prosecute for littering. It used to be the culture of the western world to bear bait and to have a fine old time attending a decent hanging, but we have moved on, mostly. So, culture is not an excuse.
 

Tiernanator

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If they are citizens of a country they already have a homeland. As far as I am aware Roma people that are born or originate from any given region or state are citizens of that state/region. However I am all for giving them Nigeria. Nigeria the new Roma homeland has a ring to it don't you think.
 

The Lighthouse Keeper

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The Roma having their own homeland would be cultural suicide as they would have nobody to beg, steal or sponge off.
Their minister for social welfare would be a very confused individual indeed! :lol:
 

Thac0man

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The Lighthouse Keeper said:
The Roma having their own homeland would be cultural suicide as they would have nobody to beg, steal or sponge off.
Their minister for social welfare would be a very confused individual indeed! :lol:
I think they would just roll the Finance and Social Welfare ministeries into one, and perhaps the foreign ministry as well. ;)

As thir defence forces might be entirely manned by muggers they may as well lump the defence ministry in there too :lol:
 

hiker

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Déise said:
A lot of ignorance shown on this thread (nothing new there I suppose).

In other societies the Gypsies have contributed. Flamenco dancing in Spain comes from the Gypsies, and they tend to have a strong musical culture.

Nomadic cultures have different values. If you are nomadic there is no sense in owning what you can't carry with you so a different sense of property rights are established, hence the higher level of thievery. In the past there was work that they could do such as tinkering with tin, but that isn't done anymore. Some gypsies make their money as travelling musicians. And of course some beg.
I'm not too worried by the rascism in the thread. Ignorance always breeds fear. Some interesting points about a "homeland" though.
It would appear that the Roma Homeland in mainly Central/Eastern Europe but they can and will travel without any hangups whatsoever.
Quite a resourceful group, by all accounts. Apart from begging/theiving they do appear to have some skills as musicians/entertainers.
I can forsee a solution to the problem of Roma tribalism and crime but it will be an EU wide solution.
 

DaBrow

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hiker said:
I know precious little about these people but there are here, there and , indeed, everywhere.

They do not appear to come from any one particular country. Is there a Roma homeland?
Can they be accomadated in an area they could call their own?

There is the danger that they could be ghettoised. there is the danger they might end up like the american natives, in reservations in out of the way places with little or no services.

Any views on this one/

No rascist trolls need apply, thanks. ;)
If my memory serves me correctly they do have a homeland....... It's Romania!

They've been there for hundreds of years and are idigenous to that country "Land of the Romans", they're just darker than the more lighter skinned population e.g. Former Footballer Dan Petrescu

They originated from India but they settled in what is Romania, they aren't really that different to the Romanian/moldovan Population we expect but they appear to be the Bucharest equivalent of our "Travellers".
 

hiker

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DaBrow said:
If my memory serves me correctly they do have a homeland....... It's Romania!

They've been there for hundreds of years and are idigenous to that country "Land of the Romans", they're just darker than the more lighter skinned population e.g. Former Footballer Dan Petrescu

They originated from India but they settled in what is Romania, they aren't really that different to the Romanian/moldovan Population we expect but they appear to be the Bucharest equivalent of our "Travellers".

Their origination is now irrelevant. its been over a thousand years since they came from India so it really means nothing in terms of homeland.

Romania is one of their homelands but by no means is it the only only. If your are a people without territory then borders mean nothing. They are based in the entire central & south-eastern European area from Slovakia to Bulgaria. I know its hard to see them as human beings but the fact that they are generally criminal, thieves and beggers does not make them sub-human; it makes them very resourceful survivors.
Forget the individual cases of cruelty; we have plenty of cases of individual cruelty on this island over the last few decades to make the Roma look like a boy scouts troop.

The great benifit that has allowed me to get a job tomorrow morning in Spain, Greece or Germany has also brought a few side effects that will not be solved by puting these people on the next plane back to Bucarest, Budapest, Sofia or Bratislava.

There must be a long term goal to settle these people in one place or places. This goal can only be brought about at EU level not at national level.
 

boldfenianman

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It is often forgotten that Hitler had his own ideas on the Roma. And put them into practice.
 

hiker

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idaworldbeaters said:
It is often forgotten that Hitler had his own ideas on the Roma. And put them into practice.
Indeed, its not forgotten at all. Its because of men like Hitler that we must find a decent solution to the issue of Roma criminality and the issue of Roma civil and human rights.

All you have to do is read the majority of the above posts to realise that a very many people would quite happily turn a blind eye to a "permanent solution" to the Roma question.
If the question is not answered it quite likely that another lunatic like Hitler will emerge with his or her solution to the Roma problem.
 

storybud

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I posted before on this , I seen one Roma smash her 6 year old sons face in with a huge bunch of keys just because he asked her for something again and again, the tubby little husband turns up on the double yellow(blocking all the traffic while about 5 of them bail in slowly,) there is nothing but education that will solve this problem and that education should start at home back in Romania (fat chance) but considering the absolute drain they place on economies where ever they go it may not be such a bad idea to contribute, the regular Romanian people do not have any time for them (experience)

It is not racist to post facts about the plight of the Roma and how only they can break the cycle , I am so tired of pc twits living in leafy surburbs and not having to deal with real issues, a cousin was attaked in Rome central train station by a gang of Roma, I was forced to tell a few to F off really loud in Spain as they were trying to go for my pockets, they arrested another Roma in Balbriggan while playing his poxy accordian outside mass and found 12 grand in his pocket? and God help you pc twits if they ever move in beside you, there will be rubbish in your back garden, an unauthorised second hand car dealership on the street in no time and music played well into the night as the days takings from fools cleansing their souls by giving to charity?

The real issue here is again the total and utter incompetence of the FF government in regard to immigration, if they were half doing their job this post would not be started. I would wish one of the main papers would start a league table of the most incompetent minister based on facts, now Dick Roche would have to be handicapped as it just would not be fair if the same guy won it every year.
 

paschalog

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Its great to see the Irish, the eternal emmigrants, breathe a sigh of relief when they are no longer are at the bottom of the pile. The history of the Irish nation, its musical culture, in a large repect the survival of its language, the willingness of 'knackers' to fight and be associated with the fight against occupation and the right to self determination, is easily forgotten now that the great white aryans that have successfully begged off the population of greater Europe over the past decade no longer feel themselves emcumbered by history. Grow up. The largest criminal groups in the country are settled Irish and this is true of every nation in Europe. I do not condone crime committed by any individual or groups of individuals but real facts speak for themselves. There are real issues for travellers, Roma, Gypsies, whatever their definition, but they pail into significance when we are faced with the wider issues of crime.
 

JCSkinner

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idaworldbeaters said:
It is often forgotten that Hitler had his own ideas on the Roma. And put them into practice.
I don't think anyone except the Zionist 'only Jews suffered a holocaust' brigade have forgotten that.
 

froglet

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Déise said:
Housewifey said:
I was not being racist when I wrote can parasites have a culture by the way. I'm simply curious as to how one defines a group as having a 'culture' when they contribute nothing to the society they share.
A lot of ignorance shown on this thread (nothing new there I suppose).

In other societies the Gypsies have contributed. Flamenco dancing in Spain comes from the Gypsies, and they tend to have a strong musical culture.

Nomadic cultures have different values. If you are nomadic there is no sense in owning what you can't carry with you so a different sense of property rights are established, hence the higher level of thievery. In the past there was work that they could do such as tinkering with tin, but that isn't done anymore. Some gypsies make their money as travelling musicians. And of course some beg.

Gypsies are one of the last groups for which it is considered ok to call them "parasites". How two cultures interact is a reflection of both cultures not just one.
But imagine a Gypsey family sending out their sixteen year old daughter to work rather get an education.

Disgusting isn't it Housewifey?
First of all, Deise, the Romas who are in Ireland are NOT nomadic. There was huge coverage when the Motorway Romas were sent back to Romania. They had houses, farms, land, and offers of jobs in factories. FACT!

2nd. Deise, I know they are treated badly in Romania and I hate that but why? Because they have a reputation for theiving, con-jobs and laziness. It doesn't make their bad treatment right but they bring it on themselves.

3rd. Deise, it does not change the fact that IF they have a culture they do not share it with our society or any society they find themselves in. I have never, ever shown them anything accept respect as I do any stranger I meet. But I object to being stopped sometimes 6/7 times on any trip I make to town by them, some of whom are quite aggressive.

4th. Deise, I HATE the way they drag their babies around with them, as one poster has already stated. In hot weather, freezing cold weather. One woman at the carpark at Tesco's who sits at the ticket validator had a brand new infant with her during the freezing weather we had recently. I gave her €10 to take the baby home. She was still there an hour later, with the infant, a tiny, brand new baby and she was far too old to be the mother.

5th. Deise, we are not talking about the Spanish gypsies. I have lived in Granada during my lifetime and got to know some of them quite well. I actually lived in one of their cave dwellings as a guest for six weeks, and learnt a lot of their history, from them. They know nothing of other gypsies except some relatives in America and they have lived there since the Moors invaded and held Spain back in the whenever century. Sorry, I might have a photgraphic memory but I have no film. My age. They do not beg. They work for a living, holding Flamenco dancing nights, and camp-fire nights and they prepare food and drink for their paying guests. They work very hard and are an extremely proud people.

And finally, Deise, I mentioned that I went out to work when I was 16 in a certain context, to explain my lack of opportunity to go to university which I desperately wanted to do. To have it thrown back in my face because I state my opinion on matters shows just how ignorant and close minded YOU are. So sod off.
 

blucey

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Anybody know why the cops dont take the kids into care? Some legal problem or couldnt be arsed?
 


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