Should there be a market in organ donations ?

cyberianpan

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Gary Becker one of the world's top economists has researched this subject and is in favour of a market in organ donations :

Gary Becker.
My conclusion is that markets in organs are the best available way to enable persons with defective organs to get transplants much more quickly than under the present system. I do not find compelling the arguments against allowing the sale of organs, especially when weighed against the number of lives that would be saved by the increased supply stimulated by financial incentives.
Wikipedia Gary Stanley Becker (born December 2, 1930) is an American economist and a Nobel laureate. Born in Pottsville, Pennsylvania, Becker earned a B.A. at Princeton University in 1951 and a Ph.D. at The University of Chicago in 1955. He taught at Columbia University from 1957 to 1968, and then returned to The University of Chicago, where he holds joint appointments with the departments of Economics, Sociology, and the Booth School of Business. Becker won the John Bates Clark Medal in 1967, was awarded the Nobel Prize in Economics in 1992, and received the United States' Presidential Medal of Freedom in 2007.[1]
I am also - what do others think ?

Personally it makes sense, it is an incentive for life saving action and Becker has performed research which shows it would work.

Also of course this could refer to people getting payment now in advance of their death, or for people selling one kidney etc.

cYp
 
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BlackWatch

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Within a decade from now,doctors will be able to clone organs. I was watching a documentary on it a few months ago.
 

Bobert

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Makes sense to me.
 

Fantasia

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Gary Becker's kidney for sale
slightly sclerotic
10% off for a limited time only
 

20000miles

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Continued from another thread:

How so? If kidneys were going for €1,000,000 each on the market, some might say you'd be stupid not to sell your organ.
Would you sell yours? I very much doubt it. It's exploitation of the poor/needy.
If that's the case I'd be exercising my choice - something you say doesn't exist with the financial incentive in place.

Is it? You haven't told us how.
They would be the ones subjecting themselves to an unnecessary medical intervention, and possible harm, so as to acquire some much needed funds. You would be exploiting their need/poverty.
Donating organs isn't the only manner to acquire funds. As to the earlier point about robbing people of their choice, I would say that the opposite is true. The possible donor gains another possible choice. So under the current system, the choices are:

  • Retain kidneys
  • Sell kidney for €0

Under a legal paid organ donation scheme another option is added:

  • Sell kidney for >€0

Which appears to be a marked improvement for those in poverty.
 

TommyO'Brien

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No.
 

Ráth Cúil

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Gary Becker one of the world's top economists has researched this subject and is in favour of a market in organ donations :

Gary Becker.




I am also - what do others think ?

Personally it makes sense, it is an incentive for life saving action and Becker has performed research which shows it would work.

Also of course this could refer to people getting payment now in advance of their death, or for people selling one kidney etc.

cYp

Brilliant. Not content with having the free market dictate most aspects of peoples lives, you're suggesting it should be applied to human organs and dictate whether someone lives or dies!

"Makes sense to me".... of course it makes sense to you. You probably have enough money to buy ten kidneys and a couple of livers. What about the people who don't?

And what about the people who are donating?.... who clearly will be, for the majority, the poorest of the poor from both the developed and the developing world
 

Bobert

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Monkey-Magic

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More hate and exploitation from the libertarian wackos. Because the capitalists have impoverished half the world they now believe the poor should put their body parts up for sale to survive. And of course the rich should be able to take organs off the poor for a "fair" price!
 

cyberianpan

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Brilliant. Not content with having the free market dictate most aspects of peoples lives, you're suggesting it should be applied to human organs and dictate whether someone lives or dies!

"Makes sense to me".... of course it makes sense to you. You probably have enough money to buy ten kidneys and a couple of livers. What about the people who don't?

And what about the people who are donating?.... who clearly will be, for the majority, the poorest of the poor from both the developed and the developing world
Well we'd have to see how the market would bottom out

It'd all depend on how closely the appropriate deaths and harvesting tallied with need (i.e. supply and demand) - but quite possibly it would be cheap and could actually save the public health system money

cYp
 

stringjack

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"Makes sense to me".... of course it makes sense to you. You probably have enough money to buy ten kidneys and a couple of livers. What about the people who don't?
Is there some reason the state, or an insurance company, would be unable to enter the market?
 

20000miles

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More hate and exploitation from the libertarian wackos. Because the capitalists have impoverished half the world they now believe the poor should put their body parts up for sale to survive. And of course the rich should be able to take organs off the poor for a "fair" price!
Noone has yet to prove to us how permitting organ sales (for a price >0) is exploitative. Similarly, noone has shown me how giving the poor such a choice will make them worse off than under the current system.
 

cyberianpan

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Noone has yet to prove to us how permitting organ sales (for a price >0) is exploitative. Similarly, noone has shown me how giving the poor such a choice will make them worse off than under the current system.
Indeed overall a market would likely lead to improved outcomes for all

cYp
 

cactusflower

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I don't see too many medical references in this thread. The problem for the rich in harvesting the organs of the poor is that the organs of the poor are often...poor. A man in the UK died last week as the lungs he had transplanted had been filled with John Players effluent for 30 years and were cancerous. There have been multiple problems in the States with infection and rejection.

The best person to get an organ from is a close family member.

Cypan: your zeal to chop up people of the "lower orders" on one pretext or another is striking.

Were you bitten by one as a child ?
 

cyberianpan

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I don't see too many medical references in this thread. The problem for the rich in harvesting the organs of the poor is that the organs of the poor are often...poor. A man in the UK died last week as the lungs he had transplanted had been filled with John Players effluent for 30 years and were cancerous. There have been multiple problems in the States with infection and rejection.

The best person to get an organ from is a close family member.
I see no proof that poorer people would be more likely to donate

Cypan: your zeal to chop up people of the "lower orders" on one pretext or another is striking.

Were you bitten by one as a child ?
Not that I know of and this proposal would be mostly post mortem

cYp
 

TradCat

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A man in the UK died last week as the lungs he had transplanted had been filled with John Players effluent for 30 years and were cancerous.
Is it not the case that there is a shortage of sellers at the current zero price so the system has to take what it can get? Hence the poor quality.

There is a Yuk factor attached to the concept of selling organs and the rhetoric gets cranked up in opposition to it. But there are many who would treat our organs as state property and make free donation compulsory.

That certainly has a greater yuk factor for me but there general view is that the current system of voluntary donation is not providing enough supply to meet demand. In that situation the price has to rise and would if it was allowed to.

Currently the rich can by organs stolen from prisoners in communist China. That gives us the worst of both worlds. State coercion plus a black market rigged to exclude most of us.
 

cactusflower

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I see no proof that poorer people would be more likely to donate

Not that I know of and this proposal would be mostly post mortem

cYp
Perhaps it is one of those suppressed memories.

The open market is not a good means of dealing with the need for organs.
The closer a person is related to the donor, the less likelihood there is of rejection.

One very simple thing that could be done to free up supply would be an opt out system rather than an opt out. Anyone who didn't want their organs used could wear a tag or tattoo of some kind. Its already done in some countries.

And of course there is always the option no one wants to think about - preventative medecine. When someone's organs are damaged its usually because they have neglected their body in some way - lack of exercise, diet, smoking, drinking etc.The number of transplants needed could be brought right down if we addressed these things properly.
 

Akrasia

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Gary Becker one of the world's top economists has researched this subject and is in favour of a market in organ donations :

Gary Becker.




I am also - what do others think ?

Personally it makes sense, it is an incentive for life saving action and Becker has performed research which shows it would work.

Also of course this could refer to people getting payment now in advance of their death, or for people selling one kidney etc.

cYp
This is typical chicago school economics. The market will solve anything.

He is only interested in saving the lives of rich people, especially if he advocates people selling their organs while they're still alive

(picture the advertisment: so you've lost your job, can't afford to feed the kids, house about to be re-posessed? Ask yourself, Do I really need both of my Kidneys?)
 

Akrasia

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It should be noted that there already is an organ market in operation, however it has a price ceiling of €0.

Apparently everyone else involved in organ donations - the doctors, nurses and hospital cleaners - are allowed to financially benefit. The donors have to make do with satisfaction.
the donors are usually dead.

Live organ transplants are almost 100% close relatives and their motivation is to save the lives of a loved one.

You are advocating poor people selling their organs to rich people.

(or the families of dead people selling their relative's organs)
 


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