Should There Be Holocaust Laws For Ireland?


SantryLover

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My reason for asking this is because of the blatant anti Semitism displayed by a small minority of cowards in the Holocaust thread. Certain posters are disputing the six million figure, others are saying that their were no gas chambers and others are sourcing fake newspaper articles claiming that the six million figure was around since 1860. Crazy stuff and most sane people will just see it for what it is ie Nazi Jew hating lowlifes with nothing better to be doing with their time. The laws are in place in many major European countries such as France, Germany, Belgium, Bosnia/Herzegovina and have been an unqualified success.


The holocaust of six million Jews, the horrific, suffering that they endured not just in WWII but throughout the centuries represented a nadir in human civilization. Their unjust sacrifice must never be forgotten, may it never have been in vein. That a country like Germany, a country that gave the world great art and music could allow itself to fall to such barbaric proportions. However, it has to be said that the majority of peace loving Germans wanted no part but knew the consequences if they disobeyed the Nazis.

What do you think, should their be holocaust laws in Ireland? if the mods could put a poll up, that would be very much appreciated.


Laws against Holocaust denial - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Introduction to the Holocaust
 

Schomberg

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No. People are free to make cocks of themselves all day long. I like everything out in the open, better for us all that way.
 

statsman

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Another thread for the Anti-Semites to infect; just what we needed.
 

Carlos Danger

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Sometimes a line has to be drawn in the sand, what about implementing hate laws?
Aren't there hate laws in place? Certainly there are incitement and discrimination laws.
 

redhead

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No. People are free to make cocks of themselves all day long.
This.

As abhorrent as these attitudes are they tend to belong to a small minority of keyboard warriors. I can't imagine anywhere (other than special groups where like minded idiots meet) where voicing these opinions wouldn't be met with derision and ostracism.
 

Carlos Danger

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well they are not in effect in the holocaust thread are they. If that was another country they would be before a judge.
So you decided the best thing to do was to open a thread that you knew would draw them like flies to shït?
 

Whichone

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So my suspicions were right, the Holocaust threat, started by a noted Israeli lobbyist, was a ruse to provoke antisemitic (or perceived antisemitc) remarks, in order to make the case that Ireland is antisemitic and therefore special laws are required.

Holocaust denial is already a crime in several European countries, thanks to strong lobbying by the Israelis. Of course they would like to see it become a crime in all European countries, hence the activity of the usual suspects on this forum and, presumably, elsewhere.

I would be against such a law in Ireland, I'm for freedom of speech as long as it doesn't harm or offend anybody. However with a Minister of Justice with strong ties to Israel I wouldn't be too confident about such a law not being passed in the future.

Yet another reason not to vote FG ever!
 

NewGoldDream

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I recall yesterday your best argument on some thread was that I was a "Hitler fanboy" reading Mein Kampf...because of my avatar!

Maybe there should be laws, maybe not, but either way I don't think the opinions of the hysterical and those who overreact should be considered.
 

zakalwe1

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anti-semitism/holocaust denial laws were essential in post war europe where there was a history of collaboration with the nazis and sending jews to the camps.

what we have here at the moment is a case of stupid, and unfortunately you can't outlaw stupidity.
 

Carlos Danger

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I understand where you are coming from but I genuinely wanted to know if people here would like to see Ireland adopt holocaust laws.
Sure you did. What was I thinking? Sincerest apologies.
 

Kevin Parlon

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@OP: No. And stickers dogmatically claiming a particular number are hostages to fortune. We don't need to change anything. Only the lunatic fringe and those who don't want to know differ. Historians are doing a good enough job on their own and legally enshrining any particular historical conclusion only adds grist to the mill of those who would accuse them of conspiracy.
 

NewGoldDream

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My bad NGD , and apologies for that. It got a little out of hand.
Fair enough.

And you know what, I actually wouldn't mind Holocaust Laws. The David Irving trial in Austria was enjoyable, particularly the way he recanted and wet his pants when he realised that gravity of the matter.
 

Feelinglost

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My reason for asking this is because of the blatant anti Semitism displayed by a small minority of cowards in the Holocaust thread. Certain posters are disputing the six million figure, others are saying that their were no gas chambers and others are sourcing fake newspaper articles claiming that the six million figure was around since 1860. Crazy stuff and most sane people will just see it for what it is ie Nazi Jew hating lowlifes with nothing better to be doing with their time. The laws are in place in many major European countries such as France, Germany, Belgium, Bosnia/Herzegovina and have been an unqualified success.


The holocaust of six million Jews, the horrific, suffering that they endured not just in WWII but throughout the centuries represented a nadir in human civilization. Their unjust sacrifice must never be forgotten, may it never have been in vein. That a country like Germany, a country that gave the world great art and music could allow itself to fall to such barbaric proportions. However, it has to be said that the majority of peace loving Germans wanted no part but knew the consequences if they disobeyed the Nazis.

What do you think, should their be holocaust laws in Ireland? if the mods could put a poll up, that would be very much appreciated.


Laws against Holocaust denial - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Introduction to the Holocaust
No! We have too many laws as it is, in reality we only need Celine's Laws to get on with each other.

National Security is the chief cause of National Insecurity.

Reflecting the paranoia of the Cold War, Celine's First Law focuses around the common idea that to have national security, one must create a secret police. Since internal revolutionaries and external foes would make the secret police a prime target for infiltration, and because the secret police would by necessity have vast powers to blackmail and intimidate other members of the government, another higher set of secret police must be created to monitor the secret police. And an even higher set of secret police must then be created to monitor the higher order of secret police. Repeat ad nauseam.

This seemingly infinite regress goes on until every person in the country is spying on another, or until "the funding runs out." And since this paranoid and self monitoring situation inherently makes targets of a nation's own citizens, the average person in the nation is more threatened by the massive secret police complex than by whatever foe they were seeking to protect themselves from.

At the same time, given the limitation of funding and scale, the perfect security state never truly emerges, leaving the populace still vulnerable from the original threat while also being threatened by the vast and Orwellian secret police.



Accurate communication is possible only in a non-punishing situation.

" Celine calls this law "a simple statement of the obvious" and refers to the fact that everyone who labors under an authority figure tends to lie to and flatter that authority figure in order to protect themselves either from violence or from deprivation of security (such as losing one's job). In essence, it is usually more in the interests of any worker to tell his boss what he wants to hear, not what is true.

In any hierarchy, every level below the highest carries a subtle burden to see the world in the way their superiors expect it to be seen and to provide feedback to their superiors that their superiors want to hear. In the end, any hierarchical organization supports what its leaders already think is true more than it challenges them to think differently. The levels below the leaders are more interested in keeping their jobs than telling the truth.


An honest politician is a national calamity.

Celine recognizes that the third law seems preposterous from the beginning. While a dishonest politician is interested only in bettering his own lot through abusing the public trust, an honest politician is far more dangerous since he is honestly interested in bettering society through political action, and that means writing and implementing more and more laws.

Celine argues that creating more laws simply creates more criminals. Laws inherently restrict individual freedom, and the explosive rate at which laws are being created means that every citizen in the course of his daily life does not have the research capacity to not violate at least one of the plethora of laws. It is only through honest politicians trying to change the world through laws that true tyranny can come into being through excessive legislation.

Corrupt politicians simply line their own pockets. Honest idealist politicians cripple the people's freedom through enormous numbers of laws. So corrupt politicians are preferable according to Celine, despite the possibility of an honest politician who honestly opposes the formation of new laws (or wants to do away with some).
 
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statsman

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You might have to amend the criteria to add a third type; The Old Tribe Aficionado.
I like a simple model; I suspect we can accomodate that lot in the 'cute hoor' branch.
 

Watcher2

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My reason for asking this is because of the blatant anti Semitism displayed by a small minority of cowards in the Holocaust thread. Certain posters are disputing the six million figure, others are saying that their were no gas chambers and others are sourcing fake newspaper articles claiming that the six million figure was around since 1860. Crazy stuff and most sane people will just see it for what it is ie Nazi Jew hating lowlifes with nothing better to be doing with their time. The laws are in place in many major European countries such as France, Germany, Belgium, Bosnia/Herzegovina and have been an unqualified success.


The holocaust of six million Jews, the horrific, suffering that they endured not just in WWII but throughout the centuries represented a nadir in human civilization. Their unjust sacrifice must never be forgotten, may it never have been in vein. That a country like Germany, a country that gave the world great art and music could allow itself to fall to such barbaric proportions. However, it has to be said that the majority of peace loving Germans wanted no part but knew the consequences if they disobeyed the Nazis.

What do you think, should their be holocaust laws in Ireland? if the mods could put a poll up, that would be very much appreciated.


Laws against Holocaust denial - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Introduction to the Holocaust
Ah jaysus, this again. Aren't people entitled to be stupid if they want to deny facts exist? Should there be laws against stupidity? If so, our jails will not stand any chance. Not that they dont suffer from overcrowding as it is. The first thing to do woul.d be to turn the Dail into a jail so it will house the most stupid in our society.
 
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