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Should voting in LEs and GEs be compulsory

Degeneration X

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Jun 14, 2017
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7,035
Why should you be forced to Vote if there is nobody espousing policies you agree with ?

Why should you be forced tp vote if you believe Irish MEPs make not 1 jot of difference to EU policy ? (11 out of 705) - (and your vote will be taken as evidence of support for the EU)

Why should you be forced to vote for counciillors that have no powers

Why should you be forced to vote for people to earn € 500,000 a year while thousands wait on Trollies in Hospitals

I didnt vote and have no intention of voting in the GE ....and you want to fine me for holding those beliefs ?
Would you consider running yourself?
 


brughahaha

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Would you consider running yourself?
No .......too old now ..and Im not sure Independents really achieve much in terms of significant social change.The odd single issue victory maybe , but change to the system not so much
 

brughahaha

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Where u believe in that u spoil the vote,
people who don't vote can have no complaints about the politicions that the people have voted in
Spoiled votes are ignored ... if turnouts start touching 40% in GEs ..it wont be
 

brughahaha

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People who don't vote double the value of the vote of those who do. Hard to complain about shit politicians when by staying at home you give their voters twice the voting power.
So tell me which General election , your particular vote has made a significant difference after near 100 years of Tweedledum (FF) and Tweedledee (FG and Lab) with not a jot of difference between the 2.
An electorate that routinely returns Lowry and the Healy Raes ..and electorate that returned all 3 councillors outed by Prime Time..an electorate that voted in Maria bailey , and (routinely) her Dad.

Id rather stay at home and do something constructive like weed the garden that delude myself that my vote makes the slightest difference
 

Baron von Biffo

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At a minimum it identifies deficiencies of voter knowledge about EU elections and how it works. Not that we don't know the state has a civics deficit, but it would be far harder for the the government of the day to ignore it if turnout numbers were high. Also spoiled votes give fair indication to voter disenfranchisement and are internationally accepted as being a fair indicator for where a country might be in trouble.

Information enough for me regardless of how it's interpreted.
What you call information is in fact your interpretations.

It probably is the case that some of those who spoiled their votes did so out of ignorance of how the system works but that wouldn't account the higher number of blank ballots in the EU than the local elections as both use the same system.

By definition a spoilt vote is not an indication of disenfranchisement.


You're kind of contradicting yourself, on one hand you're saying that the Gardai will be enforcing the fine, on the other hand you're saying that it will just be another unenforceable fine.
I didn't say it would be unenforceable, I said it wouldn't be enforced. Although if we did attempt to enforce it it would consume vast garda and court resources.

We both should know that a fine could be deductible through SW payments or regular fines for people who are working.
We won't even make a serious effort to recover fraudulently obtained dole payments so do you seriously think we'd stop money from SW to pay a fine like this?


For a great many of the cohort we're talking about fines are an irrelevance. They have no problem being booked in and out of Mountjoy and being sent home with a cheque to cover their travel.

Also, the "Anto and KayLee" example is a piss poor analogy...we legislate for the majority of society, not some miserable portion of the population that is very much a minority.
They may be a minority in the general population but they form a great part of the non-voting population.

A fine is a very simple proposition, get off your hole and save yourself 50 Euro...or don't and give the state 50 Euro. There's no need to complicate it otherwise.
That's hardly true. Especially when you consider that two arseholes who were once jailed for refusing pay fines have just been elected to the European Parliament.

 

brughahaha

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Low turnouts suit certain politicians to a tee.
High turnout , low turnout , over 50% vote FF FG and Lab regardless .
And they are the SAME party .........
Not voting is not the problem , gobsh!tes who vote for the same party election after election like its some sort of a football match and they must support "the team"good bad incompetent or indifferent ,are the problem ...and thats over 50% of the electorate.
When that ends and we actually have a real choice I'll vote again ...but in the meantime , life is short enough to waste it pretending your making a difference by voting
 

Baron von Biffo

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Therein lies the problem - the established parties can mobilize a base vote from those with a vested interest and the impact of those votes is effectively double what it should be, largely drowning our the “policy” driven voters who want to vote for the people with capability and integrity - the big parties will ALWAY win elections due to the apathy of the citizens and funnily enough I’ve never heard the topic of compulsory voting ever discussed in the Dail, despite us looking to Australia for many good examples of democracy.
Everybody has a vested interest in who's in our parliament.
 

RelentlessApathy!

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Feb 16, 2018
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So tell me which General election , your particular vote has made a significant difference after near 100 years of Tweedledum (FF) and Tweedledee (FG and Lab) with not a jot of difference between the 2.
An electorate that routinely returns Lowry and the Healy Raes ..and electorate that returned all 3 councillors outed by Prime Time..an electorate that voted in Maria bailey , and (routinely) her Dad.

Id rather stay at home and do something constructive like weed the garden that delude myself that my vote makes the slightest difference
Low turnouts suit certain politicians to a tee.
There's your answer, non-voters are losers of the worst kind. They condemn us to failed parties and corrupt politicians. FFG play the game because it's winnable to them and because idiots let them have the run of the field.
 

RelentlessApathy!

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That's hardly true. Especially when you consider that two arseholes who were once jailed for refusing pay fines have just been elected to the European Parliament.

Meh, like I said, I don't care about the Anto's, the Micks or what ever. It's a simple proposition. If it doesn't garner the turnout, you can tell me you told me so ;)
 

bells of shando

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May 1, 2019
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Ireland and England have a similar voting system. Both have the same weaknesses in the integrity of the vote.
The main weakness is the Postal voting system, where multiple ballots can be submitted without adequate identification.
The ballots from Postal voting are mixed with regular ballots and can not be distinguished.
. A colour coding of Postal ballots would correct this.
In the recent surprise Labour by-election victory in Peterborough, UK, it is estimated that 6000 ballots or 20% of the vote were Postal votes.
Considering that Labour won by 680 votes, the result is questionable, but there is no way under the present system to prove illicit activity.
Surprisingly ,no exit polls were conducted, which could have indicated a disparity in the voting patterns.
 
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myrak

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Jul 18, 2010
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455
Therein lies the problem - the established parties can mobilize a base vote from those with a vested interest and the impact of those votes is effectively double what it should be, largely drowning our the “policy” driven voters who want to vote for the people with capability and integrity - the big parties will ALWAY win elections due to the apathy of the citizens and funnily enough I’ve never heard the topic of compulsory voting ever discussed in the Dail, despite us looking to Australia for many good examples of democracy.
The problem is that people can have real reasons for not voting. I almost always vote, but missed a referendum when my son was in intensive care in Crumlin.

Even for the more flippant reasons, like people going on holiday, we can get General Elections at the last minute, when people have booked months in advance. Any fines risk becoming a randomly-allocated holiday tax.

Any attempt at mandatory voting would have to be accompanied by a means of making it easier to vote, whether by allowing early voting at a county hall before the official polling day or by postal or electronic voting (not personally in favour due to concerns over privacy of the ballot, but it may be the lesser of two evils in the circumstance).
The addition of a ‘none of the above ‘ option on all voting forms could be useful, even an eye opener for those seeking to rule over us.
 

myrak

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Jul 18, 2010
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Should have said compulsory voting PLUS a ‘none of the above’ box would give a much clearer picture of where taxpayers are at.
 

bells of shando

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May 1, 2019
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Socrates the great Greek philosopher highlighted the weaknesses in Democracy, when he opined that not all of the citizens were intellectually fit to exercise their vote.
He construed that those of low educational capacity were easily swayed by the false promises of smooth talking, snake oil salesmen populists. This resulted in inferior self interested candidates being elected to positions of power and inevitable corruption and crisis in the State.
Control of the Media ,is the single most important component of an election campaign.
This control can be either bought ,bribed ,blackmailed or pressured by self interest.
Populist promises are made and discarded as soon as an election is over and the same old corrupt faces are again warming their rear ends in well paid sinecures.
The positions of power give the incumbents the power to dispense favours to their supporters in the private sector and Govt sector of Civil service, Garda and Judiciary.
This has been the system entrenched in Ireland since the foundation of the State and made us the most corrupt country in Europe on a par with Albania.
 
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