Should we fly, swim or stay in the pub?

Lumpy Talbot

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No
It was bloody awful, Labour trying to get all hip and down with US style campaign events.

I definitely remember that.
 


Pyewacket

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It was bloody awful, Labour trying to get all hip and down with US style campaign events.

I definitely remember that.
I have just remembered the 92 Labour campaign song (Kinnock) was BB King's "Someone Really Loves You".

Time to fucing die, amigo.
 

Lumpy Talbot

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No
Nothing funnier than a party focus group trying to inject a bit of American marketing jazz into European political campaigning.

It is like watching a convention of Uncles Who Can Dance at Weddings.
 

Watcher2

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The human relationship with the car is odd and I see I need to clarify that. Firstly, psychologically our cars are an extension of our selves and the home. The windscreen and ever quieter engines lull us along with radio and other distractions into a state where a lot of people I suspect see the outside world passing by almost as if it is a television programme.

I'm equally certain that this is behind a lot of road traffic accidents in reality. All car marketing is aimed at the personality of the intended customer bracket.

No car ad is ever going to begin with the phrase 'so you've decided that you are responsible enough to drive an object weighing a few tons at speeds of up to 70 miles per hour across a human-filled landscape...'
Says the man who has not owned a car in 20 years. You sound like a priest preaching about sex and marriage.

The windscreen like a TV screen. Indeed.
 

Watcher2

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Legacies are an interesting notion. Walking in Seattle yesterday I noticed a graffito scrawled angrily on a power substation fence: "boomers ****ed our planet and got fat doing it"
Yeah, baby boomers are pure evil. The ones who reused bottles to get the deposit back versus the gen Xer generation who love to throw things away, buy fast fashion, get carried everywhere in a vehicle rather than walk, spend fortunes upgrading to the latest gadgets despite a perfectly good working model already in their possession. Spend fortunes importing foriegn and out of season produce like avacados, because loike, its sooooo lovely. The generation that loves to fly to far flung places for weekend breaks with the lads and lassies. etc etc

Yep, boomers fvcked you alright.
 

Watcher2

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Life's getting better faster. We're the last crop of humans to (by which I mean people born in the 20th century) miss out on immortality. No one born after 2050 need die of preventable disease or aging.
Now THAT's a recipe for over population. But the car must go.
 

Watcher2

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Electric vehicles are the toys of the wealthy.....

I had hoped the article would provide some form of analysis of the relative level of emissions in the manufacture of EV v ICE vehicles. I know there are far few parts in an EV car, but the manufacture of batteries if highly "dirty" and EV cars have a far shorter life span than ICE vehicles. That means that more of them must be produced for replacements.

And then you have to factor in how the electricity for charging the batteries is produced. Its not all green electricity, is it? Plus, wind farms for instance, are reported to be highly inefficient. And what of the wind farms impact on ecosystems?

IMHO, there is a lot of misinformation/lack of information out there in these types of discussions.
 

Lumpy Talbot

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No
Says the man who has not owned a car in 20 years. You sound like a priest preaching about sex and marriage.

The windscreen like a TV screen. Indeed.
You may not like it but there are a lot of people driving around who consider their car to be an extension of their home and plenty who don't realise the world whizzing past is real until they smash into something or someone.
 

McTell

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No
//

And then you have to factor in how the electricity for charging the batteries is produced. Its not all green electricity, is it? Plus, wind farms for instance, are reported to be highly inefficient. And what of the wind farms impact on ecosystems?

IMHO, there is a lot of misinformation/lack of information out there in these types of discussions.
[/QUOTE]


It;s difficult as the "model" allows for 50% of the electricity used to charge a battery to be green. Some places it will be more, others less.

Then making the battery, and mining its metals, uses a lot of CO2. A BBC article suggested that, spread over a 7 year life, an EV will emit 80% of the CO2 of an ICE car.

So EV is a bit better than ICE, if you add up all the 20%s. And cleaner air in cities is good. But hardly worth upending an economy over.

Hydrogen cars, why did this not happen? We have lots of water. Back in the 1920s, JBS Haldane envied future generations who would be powered by hydrogen split by free energy from windmills. He was still living in the coal era.
 


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