• Before posting anything about COVID-19, READ THIS FIRST! COVID-19 and Misinformation (UPDATED)
    Misinformation and/or conspiracy theories about this topic, even if intended as humor, will not be tolerated!

Granballoon

Active member
Joined
Sep 12, 2020
Messages
286
Last edited:
Last edited:
If not, why not? I think a person's nation should be paying their welfare if it's required. Many European countries are adversely affected by having to pay other nationalities payments, Ireland isn't even that high on the list in terms of benefits, many other European countries offer more of a package (apparently; hard to find concrete stats online regarding weekly payments for one reason or another). I don't get the rationale behind another country picking up the tab for a national of another country at all. Not every European country offers the same total. This obviously creates a scenario where people are moving to a place simply for the better welfare.
 

Sync

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 27, 2009
Messages
32,124
The Dano case meant that what you're suggesting isn't a legal entitlement. You can only reside in an EU country if you have means to support yourself (Insurance and cash) or have been employed there to build up tax credits, entitling you to avail of benefits.
 

Granballoon

Active member
Joined
Sep 12, 2020
Messages
286
The Dano case meant that what you're suggesting isn't a legal entitlement. You can only reside in an EU country if you have means to support yourself (Insurance and cash) or have been employed there to build up tax credits, entitling you to avail of benefits.
Interesting, did not know about this Dano v Jobcenter Leipzig - Wikipedia Of course, it's a matter of this law being put into practice. If this case is from around 2010, I think we can safely say that we have ten years of observing that not happening at all. Just because the state is not obliged to doesn't mean they don't. The public really has very little control over what our departments actually do. And I assume there are ways around it, like maybe declaring yourself homeless. Might still help to integrate the system of invoicing your home country and you receiving what your country pays out to all nationals.

It doesn't take much to provoke your alleged thought process.
Yes, very thought provoking, yes, very rational mindset, yes... yes... what a great mind you are Sean, and an asset to our country really. If we ever need anyone to shout nonsensical shite on the street you'll be the first called.
 

Sync

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 27, 2009
Messages
32,124
Lots of maybes and mights. Maybe you should spend a few minutes doing some research and you might make better points.
 

Lumpy Talbot

Well-known member
Top Poster Of Month
Joined
Jun 30, 2015
Messages
36,666
Twitter
No
I always thought there was a sort of exchange of costs and repayments and what-have-you coded up and swapped between national exchequers on this? I think there is some kind of agreed system of refunding and charging of partnered health systems around publicly funded health treatment entitlements in Europe so I'd be surprised if there wasn't such a system with a process agreed between neighbouring systems.
 

Granballoon

Active member
Joined
Sep 12, 2020
Messages
286
Lots of maybes and mights. Maybe you should spend a few minutes doing some research and you might make better points.
Sorry, I was just being polite.

Europe absolutely should do what I'm proposing. Because there might have been a case ten years ago, but the resulting law is not being used to refuse people living in a place just for the payment. At all. The same demographics scamming welfare here twenty years ago were still doing it ten years ago, and are still doing it today.

In fact, the only conditionals being offered up are by you, with your 'not obligated' double speak...

I always thought there was a sort of exchange of costs and repayments and what-have-you coded up and swapped between national exchequers on this? I think there is some kind of agreed system of refunding and charging of partnered health systems around publicly funded health treatment entitlements in Europe so I'd be surprised if there wasn't such a system with a process agreed between neighbouring systems.
If this was the case the countries these individuals come from would personally send bounty hunters because they're costing their government a fortune haha.
 

Seán E. Ryan

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 4, 2007
Messages
1,540
Sorry, I was just being polite.

Europe absolutely should do what I'm proposing. Because there might have been a case ten years ago, but the resulting law is not being used to refuse people living in a place just for the payment. At all. The same demographics scamming welfare here twenty years ago were still doing it ten years ago, and are still doing it today.

In fact, the only conditionals being offered up are by you, with your 'not obligated' double speak...



If this was the case the countries these individuals come from would personally send bounty hunters because they're costing their government a fortune haha.
How many people were prosecuted last year for welfare fraud, considering that the Department of Social Protection avows to have all welfare fraud cases prosecuted?

Bounty hunters? Why would they need to do so when the likes of you are running around free who'd dob them into the gardaí if there was even the inkling of a chance to do so?

As to my initial "no," let me break it into another simple concept for you: The law. Both national and international.

You want to change the law, gurning and rolling around the floor of a public forum won't cut it. Just so's you know.
 

Sync

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 27, 2009
Messages
32,124
Europe absolutely should do what I'm proposing.
It's not clear what you're proposing. I move to France and pay taxes for 10 years. I lose my job. Should Ireland then pay my unemployment benefits as opposed to France? Where I've been paying more taxes for a higher level of national unemployment assistance?

Because there might have been a case ten years ago, but the resulting law is not being used to refuse people living in a place just for the payment. At all.
It's not a "Law to be used". It was a finding that a person isn't allowed in principal to claim benefits in a country they haven't contributed to.

The same demographics scamming welfare here twenty years ago were still doing it ten years ago, and are still doing it today.
Where's the data supporting a claim that benefits tourism is widespread and if is that it's disproportionately affecting some countries more than others? You left that out of your OP.
 

Granballoon

Active member
Joined
Sep 12, 2020
Messages
286
It's not clear what you're proposing. I move to France and pay taxes for 10 years. I lose my job. Should Ireland then pay my unemployment benefits as opposed to France? Where I've been paying more taxes for a higher level of national unemployment assistance?
It is clear, and I always love people like you who go with these examples. Yeah, we're definitely talking about people who have been slaving away for ten years! Why didn't you just make it twenty years, to make your argument completely ridiculous.

If only laws didn't have frequent caveats for different situations!

It's not a "Law to be used". It was a finding that a person isn't allowed in principal to claim benefits in a country they haven't contributed to.
Then why are you presenting it as something that impacts day to day running of the union and the states within, when it very clearly doesn't. Also, 'not obligated' =/= 'not allowed'.

Where's the data supporting a claim that benefits tourism is widespread and if is that it's disproportionately affecting some countries more than others? You left that out of your OP.
Everyone gather around. This guy is about to tell us all that tourists claim unemployment benefits from the country they're visiting while abroad.
 

gijoe

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 26, 2010
Messages
15,700
Yes. Unless its a Benefit payment as of right. In fact that great failing of freedom of movement has been in providing payments and housing etc beyond that of the Social Insurance System that you pay into. If you cannot as a non-citizen sustain yourself outside of benefit payments like the Unemployment Benefit for a max of 12 months then you get cut off i.e. no access to the discretionary Unemployment Assistance. That would have been the sane way to operate freedom of movement.
 

The OD

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 10, 2005
Messages
12,718
well-that-escalated-quickly-gif-12_482098_1.gif
 

Granballoon

Active member
Joined
Sep 12, 2020
Messages
286
Last edited:
Last edited:
No. The being so close and not getting it bit.
No, the bit where you unironically have a blog, and unironically called it 'Roaring and Shouting'. You won't be able to deflect off that even if you try. It's too funny.
 

New Threads

Popular Threads

Most Replies

Top Bottom