Simon Harris Espouses Coercion And Forced Medical Intervention On Healthy Children

soubresauts

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Some people really need to stop educating themselves via Youtube and conspiracy websites.
Some people really need to stop and think.

The link I gave cited official government statistics (the sort you profess to believe but would prefer to forget).
 


MsDaisyC

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Some people really need to stop and think.

The link I gave cited official government statistics (the sort you profess to believe but would prefer to forget).
Some nutjob's video? Cite the actual links to the official government statistics.
 

petaljam

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Some people really need to stop and think.

The link I gave cited official government statistics (the sort you profess to believe but would prefer to forget).
Hi Soubresauts,

I asked a while back but I don't think you replied: when you said that "nobody needs vaccines" do you include vaccines for smallpox, polio, rabies etc in that?
 

soubresauts

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Hi Soubresauts,

I asked a while back but I don't think you replied: when you said that "nobody needs vaccines" do you include vaccines for smallpox, polio, rabies etc in that?
Yes, all vaccines.

Maybe I'm odd, but I instinctively favour (unlike Harris & Varadkar) a government that leaves people alone and doesn't dupe them.

I also instinctively know (and most doctors will reluctantly agree with me here) that measles, mumps, rubella, chickenpox and pertussis will not be eradicated with vaccines. I know very well (and most doctors will reluctantly agree with me here) that gaining lifelong immunity from measles, mumps, rubella, chickenpox and pertussis, by contracting them in childhood as we all used to do until the 1980s, is a good thing.

Some diseases such as polio are the result of crazy "modern" practices, such as sewage dispersal in open water and agrichemical use, and they disappear as we wise up.

Smallpox is a very different case, and maybe it was going to die out anyway. The idea that vaccination did the job does not square with the hidden history of smallpox. For example, Alfred Russel Wallace was no idiot and felt that he had proved that smallpox vaccination was "useless and dangerous".

There's a reasonable medical establishment article about him here.

As for rabies, what happened?

All vaccines are risky, but Varadkar and Harris want to impose that risk on us whether we like it or not. And want to make us taxpayers pay for those increasingly expensive drugs, but will go to the ends of the earth to avoid paying compensation to vaccine-damaged people.
 

petaljam

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Yes, all vaccines.
Wow. So if you or one of you children gets bitten by a dog you won't bother with a tetanus injection then? You realise there are deaths every year from tetanus, mainly of older people who haven't had a booster shot in years?

Maybe I'm odd, but I instinctively favour (unlike Harris & Varadkar) a government that leaves people alone and doesn't dupe them.

I also instinctively know (and most doctors will reluctantly agree with me here) that measles, mumps, rubella, chickenpox and pertussis will not be eradicated with vaccines. I know very well (and most doctors will reluctantly agree with me here) that gaining lifelong immunity from measles, mumps, rubella, chickenpox and pertussis, by contracting them in childhood as we all used to do until the 1980s, is a good thing.
And some people died of those illnesses. Are you sure the damage done by the vaccines is greater than that done by the illnesss?

Some diseases such as polio are the result of crazy "modern" practices, such as sewage dispersal in open water and agrichemical use, and they disappear as we wise up.
Well, no. Polio is ancient, with depictions of survivors found in Egyptian paintings and sculptures, and the Emperor Claudius' lameness is thought to be the result of childhood polio.

There weren't widespread polio epidemics until the 19th and 20th centuries, true - but the industrial revolution, communal swimming pools and other aspects of modern living are the causes. It's not that we stopped doing something sensible, it's that huma society changed and viruses adapted because viruses do.

One century it's the plague, then smallpox or tuberculosis, and then polio and now perhaps Ebola or some of those flu epidemics. The point being that new epidemics inevitably arise and you haven't made any effort to explain why why (or whether) you think that, say, antibiotics are an acceptable weapon against some illnesses but vaccines are not acceptable. Or perhaps you think nobody needs antibiotics either?

Smallpox is a very different case, and maybe it was going to die out anyway. The idea that vaccination did the job does not square with the hidden history of smallpox. For example, Alfred Russel Wallace was no idiot and felt that he had proved that smallpox vaccination was "useless and dangerous".

There's a reasonable medical establishment article about him here.
Maybe it was going to die out, or maybe not. These illnesses tend to be cyclical anyway - but as I said above, that's inevitable with changing society and increased knowledge and the development of "arms" against these illnesses - we adapt to illnesses in all sorts of ways so they end up by no longer being as dangerous as they once were. But there will always be a new one coming along soon, and I don't se why you seem to think that voluntarily depriving ourselves of any one of the weapons in that struggle is a good idea.

As for rabies, what happened?
Don't know what you are asking here. A rabies vaccine exists, but because rabies is now so rare in Europe, it isn't needed and therefore isn't given except if you are travelling to somewhere where rabies is endemic. I've been vaccinated against it because I was going to Asia. I didn't have to, but I wouldn't have dreamt of not having it.

Would you really take a chance if you were going to spend any length of time in a country where rabies is commonplace among wild or feral animals? What risk do you think having the rabies vaccine would cause you that would make it worthwhile possibly getting rabies? Or is there a homeopathic treatment or something?
 

Dame_Enda

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Given the disaster of Thalidamide I think the govt should think through very carefully before a decision to try to coerce people into vaccinating.
 

Noble Guardian

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Given the disaster of Thalidamide I think the govt should think through very carefully before a decision to try to coerce people into vaccinating.
how so? That's like saying that the Titanic disaster should force a rethink on lifeboat numbers on boats.
 

MsDaisyC

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Given the disaster of Thalidamide I think the govt should think through very carefully before a decision to try to coerce people into vaccinating.
Thalidomide was never a vaccine.
 

Destiny's Soldier

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Noble Guardian

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petaljam

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Two people? Sad but medicine is always about risk vs benefit. I wonder how many got the vaccine with no ill effects. The 5% mortality rate for the illness itself (45 000 in 2013) means I'd still prefer to take my chances on having the vaccine before travelling to a country where it is endemic.
 
D

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You won’t be allowed to prefer anything if one choice is made compulsory for everyone (which includes you and your children) regardless of your travel plans.

Bless.
 

Noble Guardian

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You won’t be allowed to prefer anything if one choice is made compulsory for everyone (which includes you and your children) regardless of your travel plans.

Bless.
I'm not entirely sure that yellow fever is a big problem in Irish schools, so you probably won't have to get a yellow fever vaccination should this policy ever be enacted. It's more for the highly contagious measles virus.
as regards to these two unfortunate patients, but this highlights the difference between medical risk and medical uncertainty.
Medical risk is something that can be defined on a population basis, like we know that one in 10000 patients get a certain adverse effect if they take medicine. The uncertainty is that for any given individual neither will or will not have that particular adverse event. We just can't predict if you will be that one in 10000.
 
D

Deleted member 34656

I'm not entirely sure that yellow fever is a big problem in Irish schools, so you probably won't have to get a yellow fever vaccination should this policy ever be enacted. It's more for the highly contagious measles virus.
as regards to these two unfortunate patients, but this highlights the difference between medical risk and medical uncertainty.
Medical risk is something that can be defined on a population basis, like we know that one in 10000 patients get a certain adverse effect if they take medicine. The uncertainty is that for any given individual neither will or will not have that particular adverse event. We just can't predict if you will be that one in 10000.
I don’t think anyone is looking for predictions.

They are just looking for accurate information so that they can make an informed choice about their own health.

Were the people who died after vaccination for yellow fever informed of the risks given their own health backgrounds?

The article doesn’t say.
 

petaljam

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I don’t think anyone is looking for predictions.

They are just looking for accurate information so that they can make an informed choice about their own health.

Were the people who died after vaccination for yellow fever informed of the risks given their own health backgrounds?

The article doesn’t say.
If you'd actually read it, you'd have worked out that one of them was a medical professor at the Royal Marsden, so I think we can assume he knew about the risks of vaccination.
 
D

Deleted member 34656

If you'd actually read it, you'd have worked out that one of them was a medical professor at the Royal Marsden, so I think we can assume he knew about the risks of vaccination.
I don’t have a lot of time for what you think.

I want to know what information he shared with his patients before injecting them with the drugs that he sold to them.
 

Noble Guardian

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I don’t have a lot of time for what you think.

I want to know what information he shared with his patients before injecting them with the drugs that he sold to them.
Who knows. If I ever find a link to answer I'll let you know
 

Destiny's Soldier

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The case of Ukraine. More Vaccination = More Disease.

Vaccinated children spreading live viruses.



In 2016 – with a vaccination rate of 31% – there were only 90 ‘confirmed cases’, i.e. 90 cases of measles confirmed by a laboratory. There was a low vaccination rate but there was no epidemic either. And this also applied to the three years before 2016. From 2013 to 2016, there were on average only 50 cases per year.[2]

Since July 2017, a national Measles Task Force, including the Ministry of Health, key stakeholders and partners such as WHO and the United Nations Children’s Fund (UNICEF), has been working to vaccinate every eligible child as they reach the appropriate age for MMR vaccination according to the national routine immunization schedule.

By the end of 2017, routine vaccination coverage had drastically improved compared to previous years: 93% of 1-year-olds received the first dose of MMR on time in 2017 and 91% of 6-year-olds received their second dose as recommended. Figures for January and February 2018 indicate that the country is on track to reach at least 95% routine coverage with both doses of MMR vaccine by the end of the year.’

Don't you love the WHO

Screen-Shot-2018-05-10-at-18.22.24-1.png

Vaccination rates restored to save people from vaccination induced Measles

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Destiny's Soldier

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I had a bit of exchange on the Simon Harris faux protest thread for those who want to chip in.

 


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