Since politicians persistently fail to radically reform the Garda Siochana, maybe the rank and file gardai should be consulted on reforms?

Patslatt1

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Since politicians persistently fail to radically reform the Garda Siochana, maybe the rank and file gardai should be consulted on reforms?

Banger cars, an obsolete phone system dating from the 1970s and lack of stab proof vests were proof that politicians were indifferent to garda efficiency and service about a decade ago. At present, an inefficient information technology system is getting headlines and this is likely down to the slow pace of civilianisation of administration jobs which is lagging way behind civilianisation in the UK. Numerous reports on garda reform have been ignored for political reasons that are opaque.

If the GS were a business, it would likely suffer a brutal restructuring of management such as IBM's in the early 1990s when thousands of management jobs were lost. Since this is unlikely, maybe the rank and file gardai should be polled anonymously on who to make redundant and who to promote in their locality. That would help encourage the government to undertake the necessary major restructuring and reorganisation of the force.
 


Degeneration X

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Banger cars, an obsolete phone system dating from the 1970s and lack of stab proof vests were proof that politicians were indifferent to garda efficiency and service about a decade ago. At present, an inefficient information technology system is getting headlines and this is likely down to the slow pace of civilianisation of administration jobs which is lagging way behind civilianisation in the UK. Numerous reports on garda reform have been ignored for political reasons that are opaque.

If the GS were a business, it would likely suffer a brutal restructuring of management such as IBM's in the early 1990s when thousands of management jobs were lost. Since this is unlikely, maybe the rank and file gardai should be polled anonymously on who to make redundant and who to promote in their locality. That would help encourage the government to undertake the necessary major restructuring and reorganisation of the force.
You think it's a case of too many chiefs and not enough Indians?
 

cricket

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Banger cars, an obsolete phone system dating from the 1970s and lack of stab proof vests were proof that politicians were indifferent to garda efficiency and service about a decade ago. At present, an inefficient information technology system is getting headlines and this is likely down to the slow pace of civilianisation of administration jobs which is lagging way behind civilianisation in the UK. Numerous reports on garda reform have been ignored for political reasons that are opaque.

If the GS were a business, it would likely suffer a brutal restructuring of management such as IBM's in the early 1990s when thousands of management jobs were lost. Since this is unlikely, maybe the rank and file gardai should be polled anonymously on who to make redundant and who to promote in their locality. That would help encourage the government to undertake the necessary major restructuring and reorganisation of the force.
You might as well rave here as in bed.Rank and file gardaí, with few exceptions, have just one ambition, to get on the gravy train asap. It's going to take a courageous policing authority, backed by an equally brave government, to knock the force into shape. Currently, it exists for the benefit of itself rather than the public.
 

Patslatt1

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You might as well rave here as in bed.Rank and file gardaí, with few exceptions, have just one ambition, to get on the gravy train asap. It's going to take a courageous policing authority, backed by an equally brave government, to knock the force into shape. Currently, it exists for the benefit of itself rather than the public.
That's a cynical view. There's nothing wrong with the ambition to be promoted. The main problems with the force can be blamed on police managements averse to modernisation and change and weak politicians who tolerated that for opaque reasons. Rank and file gardai have a right to be fed up with the policing system that is supposed to help them perform well.
 

making waves

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Patslatt couldn't resist using the words 'Gardai' and 'business' in the one sentence
 

FunkyBoogaloo

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Not.Going.To.Happen.

Reform is going to have to be forced upon AGS. The drive to do it is going to have to be forced on politicians.
 

Pollys

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The GRA have no interest in pushing for reform. Recent revelations show what they're interested in. The rank and file are too institutionalised and afraid to push the GRA to do something. They will whinge and moan about all that's wrong in the Guards but they've learnt that unless you're very brave or stupid you do not raise your head above the parapet. It will be swiftly removed. Morale is at rock bottom and it's all about self preservation. The carrot of the gratuity and a pension at a relatively young age is all thats keeping the vast majority of the Guards in the job.
 

cricket

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The GRA have no interest in pushing for reform. Recent revelations show what they're interested in. The rank and file are too institutionalised and afraid to push the GRA to do something. They will whinge and moan about all that's wrong in the Guards but they've learnt that unless you're very brave or stupid you do not raise your head above the parapet. It will be swiftly removed. Morale is at rock bottom and it's all about self preservation. The carrot of the gratuity and a pension at a relatively young age is all thats keeping the vast majority of the Guards in the job.
Had some interaction with GRA and AGSI members a few years ago. Maybe things have changed since, but at that time, both organisations were riven with cliques and mé féinirs. Clocking up expenses claims also seemed to have been high on the agenda. There were some dodgy practices as well but I'd prefer not to go into them. Many of the rank and file had remained members in name only, paying their sub just in case they got into trouble at work.
 

Bleu Poppy

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Banger cars, an obsolete phone system dating from the 1970s and lack of stab proof vests were proof that politicians were indifferent to garda efficiency and service about a decade ago. At present, an inefficient information technology system is getting headlines and this is likely down to the slow pace of civilianisation of administration jobs which is lagging way behind civilianisation in the UK. Numerous reports on garda reform have been ignored for political reasons that are opaque.

If the GS were a business, it would likely suffer a brutal restructuring of management such as IBM's in the early 1990s when thousands of management jobs were lost. Since this is unlikely, maybe the rank and file gardai should be polled anonymously on who to make redundant and who to promote in their locality. That would help encourage the government to undertake the necessary major restructuring and reorganisation of the force.
Would you cop on..... are your seriously saying that the Gardaí were, in 2008, using telephones with dials on them?



Stab proof vests began to be issued as standard H & S gear in 2006.

And you obviously did not hear today's news about IBM- https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2018/0418/955331-ibm-quarterly-results/

While there is no arguing that serious reform of management structures and practices down through the ranks is required, off the cuff (or is that wall?) remarks are of no assistance. And as a disciplined service, proposals to poll rank-and-file members about their superiors is tantamount to inciting mutiny.
 
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Patslatt1

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Had some interaction with GRA and AGSI members a few years ago. Maybe things have changed since, but at that time, both organisations were riven with cliques and mé féinirs. Clocking up expenses claims also seemed to have been high on the agenda. There were some dodgy practices as well but I'd prefer not to go into them. Many of the rank and file had remained members in name only, paying their sub just in case they got into trouble at work.
"members in name only" means what?
 

Patslatt1

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Would you cop on..... are your seriously saying that the Gardaí were, in 2008, using telephones with dials on them?



Stab proof vests began to be issued as standard H & S gear in 2006.

And you obviously did not hear today's news about IBM- https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2018/0418/955331-ibm-quarterly-results/

While there is no arguing that serious reform of management structures and practices down through the ranks is required, off the cuff (or is that wall?) remarks are of no assistance. And as a disciplined service, proposals to poll rank-and-file members about their superiors is tantamount to inciting mutiny.
The gardai definitely were using an antiquated 1970s analogue phone system in the late 1990s and maybe later and were forced to use their private mobile phones instead.

IBM had a great run after its restructuring in the early 90s by diversifying into computer systems consulting and reducing its dependency on mainframe computers.

A way should be found to make redundant a large proportion of garda managers and functional specialists who are likely to continue underperforming. One way, that of an experienced turnaround management consultant, is to sack the top layer of management and promote those managers underneath them on the presumption that the top layer was responsible for corporate failures. Given the long term resistance to reforms in the GS, maybe several layers of management need to be pruned. That might require some input from the rank and file under management guidance.
 
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Dame_Enda

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Well I have noticed An Garda Siochana are much more visible than they were say 14 yrs ago. A new Garda station has recently been built and a new courthouse in my town.

I will say that if you mean technology, that we should remember the media and FG/Labour backlash against introducing the PPARS system in the health service when FF were in govt. The politicians are a bit like my 76 yr old mother in that they are phobic of new technology.
 

Patslatt1

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Well I have noticed An Garda Siochana are much more visible than they were say 14 yrs ago. A new Garda station has recently been built and a new courthouse in my town.

I will say that if you mean technology, that we should remember the media and FG/Labour backlash against introducing the PPARS system in the health service when FF were in govt. The politicians are a bit like my 76 yr old mother in that they are phobic of new technology.
The PPARS project seemed to be poorly managed and maybe cancellation by the HSE was a good decision. In the UK, the NHS spent billions on the project to have all patients on a computerised health care card but the project flopped. Big consultancies have a knack for conning naive civil servants into projects that shaft governments on cost overruns. The Irish civil service does more DIY computerisation than the UK as far as I know.
 


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