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Single mother forced to borrow from moneylender to pay fine for not having licence for dog she never had.


davidcameron

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Single mother forced to borrow from moneylender to pay fine for not having licence for dog she never had.

Single mother fears going to jail over dog she says she never had - Independent.ie

Mary Boyle said that she borrowed €500 from a moneylender because of her fear of being jailed for not paying the fine.
However Louth County Council dog warden Padraig McKeown has responded by saying anyone in a similar situation would have ample opportunity to prove a dog spotted on their property didn't belong to them.

'I won't comment on individual cases, however, it is not up to me to prove whether someone has a dog. If someone genuinely didn't have a dog, they have plenty of opportunities in front of a judge to state their case, or at an appeal afterwards,' he told the Drogheda Independent.
Surely, this must be a violation of the presumption of innocence. Why was she not believed when she said that the dog wasn't hers?

The issue of moneylending is connected to this case. She is in serious debt. Why doesn't the Government just ban the charging of excessive interest on loans?
 

venusian

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Single mother fears going to jail over dog she says she never had - Independent.ie

Mary Boyle said that she borrowed €500 from a moneylender because of her fear of being jailed for not paying the fine.


Surely, this must be a violation of the presumption of innocence. Why was she not believed when she said that the dog wasn't hers?

The issue of moneylending is connected to this case. She is in serious debt. Why doesn't the Government just ban the charging of excessive interest on loans?
Just look at the draconian Gestapo laws that the FFger's and "labour" voted in for the tax on the family home and you can see the same mind set at work in the council. The fascist scum government is charging excessive "tax penalties" for the poor who will be unable to meet the extortion demanded by the rackateers in Dail for LPT ! Why would you expect leniency for the above victim of the state?
 

NewGoldDream

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Surely, this must be a violation of the presumption of innocence. Why was she not believed when she said that the dog wasn't hers?
Because section 2(2) of the Control of Dogs Act provides that there is a presumption, understandably, that the person who occupies property where the dog is found is the owner.
 

Raketemensch

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Just look at the draconian Gestapo laws that the FFger's and "labour" voted in for the tax on the family home and you can see the same mind set at work in the council. The fascist scum government is charging excessive "tax penalties" for the poor who will be unable to meet the extortion demanded by the rackateers in Dail for LPT ! Why would you expect leniency for the above victim of the state?
Well done for completely changing the subject at the second post.
 

davidcameron

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Because section 2(2) of the Control of Dogs Act provides that there is a presumption, understandably, that the person who occupies property where the dog is found is the owner.
So why didn't the dog warden visit her and ask her if the dog was hers?
 
D

Dylan2010

she's too compliant for her own good, she should have just told them to eff off!
 

NewGoldDream

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So why didn't the dog warden visit her and ask her if the dog was hers?
Because the law says he doesn't have to. There is a presumption, as there is in many areas - for example a Doctor who takes a blood sample in drink driving is presumed to have sufficient qualifications so they don't have to attend every District Court to go through their qualifications again and agin. It would be impossible to prove ownership of a dog in very many situations, so can understand why it exists. The presumption could have been overturned had she gone to Court and given evidence, but unfortunately she says she got the date wrong.
 

Sync

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Because section 2(2) of the Control of Dogs Act provides that there is a presumption, understandably, that the person who occupies property where the dog is found is the owner.
Am I misreading the article or is there nothing in it that says a dog was found on her property?
 

NewGoldDream

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Am I misreading the article or is there nothing in it that says a dog was found on her property?
There is no mention at all of the evidence given in Court, again understandably as she wasn't there. But clearly the matter went to Court and there was a fine issued.
 

artfoley56

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Single mother fears going to jail over dog she says she never had - Independent.ie

Mary Boyle said that she borrowed €500 from a moneylender because of her fear of being jailed for not paying the fine.


Surely, this must be a violation of the presumption of innocence. Why was she not believed when she said that the dog wasn't hers?

The issue of moneylending is connected to this case. She is in serious debt. Why doesn't the Government just ban the charging of excessive interest on loans?
About as credible as your in camera preventing reporting of crimes dave
 
M

MrFunkyZombaloo

So, the Dog Warden can issue fines without any evidence whatsoever and the courts can do the same in these cases.

What kind of f*cked up country is this?
 

Alan Alda

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Because the law says he doesn't have to. There is a presumption, as there is in many areas - for example a Doctor who takes a blood sample in drink driving is presumed to have sufficient qualifications so they don't have to attend every District Court to go through their qualifications again and agin. It would be impossible to prove ownership of a dog in very many situations, so can understand why it exists. The presumption could have been overturned had she gone to Court and given evidence, but unfortunately she says she got the date wrong.
Thats all well and good , we need sound regulation of dogs and their owners but the threat of mountjoy for this is just a scandal, an absolute disgrace.
 

GrainneDee

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Single mother fears going to jail over dog she says she never had - Independent.ie


Surely, this must be a violation of the presumption of innocence. Why was she not believed when she said that the dog wasn't hers?

?
How is it a violation of the presumption of innocence? Presumption of innocence doesn't mean you say to a Garda or a dog warden "I didn't do it" and they say "ok!".

If there's a question over an issue, it has to go to court. She can prove her innocence there, if it came to it.
 

damus

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If the Gardai arrived at her door to tell her that she'd be spending 10 days in Jail, why didn't they cart her off to jail there and then? Isn't that what normally happens?
 

NewGoldDream

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So, the Dog Warden can issue fines without any evidence whatsoever and the courts can do the same in these cases.

What kind of f*cked up country is this?
No no, read the legislation.

There is a presumption. There is not one suggestion in the article that the Court or the dog warden got one thing wrong or acted outside the law in any way whatsoever. The only indication that anyone got something wrong was that she turned up on the wrong day.
 

NewGoldDream

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If the Gardai arrived at her door to tell her that she'd be spending 10 days in Jail, why didn't they cart her off to jail there and then? Isn't that what normally happens?
They usually give someone a chance to pay a fine, even after a warrant issues for non payment.
 

Sync

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There is no mention at all of the evidence given in Court, again understandably as she wasn't there. But clearly the matter went to Court and there was a fine issued.
Right. So at the moment it's perfectly possible that the warden got the house number wrong, she didn't follow up properly and the court acted as it should have.

I'm not saying she's telling the truth (we've no idea if she is) but there's a chance that she's just been hit by a combination of a mistake by the warden and her own poor grasp of how to resolve the situation.

Of course it's also possible the warden got the number right, the dog listed matched the dog she used to have/has now (The article does heavily imply she either has a dog now or had one prior to the ticket) and she's just mucking around.
 
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