Sinn Féin and Clare Daly don't want Ireland to buy drones from Israel

cyberianpan

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Clare Daly is a nomad TD ... basically always somewhere on the shouty left - but with good money for some nice champagne and fine dining with her partner (and she's used to such, as she comes from a comfortable background)

I don't think she's any interest in reform ... just lots of shouting

The Sinn Féin dude's father was in the IRA ... and given the IRA teamed with Libya/ The PLO ... one might expect they fear Israel

Israel is well regarded for its UAVs - are the shouty left saying that we should embrago all goods from Israel ...or just ones with a military purpose ? The shouty left love polemics ... but rarely ascend to rigorous thinking ...

Criticism over plan to spend
Defence Forces’ decision to spend almost €2 million on upgrading their drone systems from an Israeli defence company...Sinn Féin Senator Pádraig Mac Lochlainn said the decision to continue business with the Israeli company was not something the Irish people would support.
cyp
 


D

Deleted member 42179

Clare Daly supports BDS (boycott, divest, sanctions)

Most FG/FF/Lab lapdogs don't because their handlers at the US embassy told them not to.

So why not target those losers instead of slagging off Clare Daly?

Sometimes you are a real arse cYp. :p

of course Ireland needs Israeli drones like a fish needs a bicycle
in the immortal words of that c*nt Bono

Put the money towards housing the homeless. In fact almost anything else would be better.
Except raises for our wilful idiot TDs of course.
 
D

Deleted member 42179

Can you outline a basis for
BDS of all goods
BDS of goods with military application

?

cyp
Well, military goods are simply low hanging fruit. We don't actually need these stupid military toys.

I'll just say this.
Israel is effectively acting like an apartheid state.
A Boycott on south african goods proved quite effective
under similar circumstances.
So why not try it with Israel?

Talk is cheap but economic sanctions have a concrete effect.

There are plenty of decent arguments available online for BDS.
I suggest you google 'em rather than expecting me to reinvent the wheel here.

I know where you are coming from but the fact is
free markets are never free in practice and they do not trump human rights.
You are not at all realistic regarding your naive faith in "the invisible hand" IMHO

Quite aside from the fact that the Israelis are total c*nts to the Palestinians,
logically we should not be importing so much food from Israel anyway.
Currently we import Israeli potatoes amongst other things FFS.
 

Dame_Enda

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I agree with them. We should not increase our exposure to trade with Israel while the Occupation continues. We dont actually trade much with them as a percentage of total exports.
 

former wesleyan

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Clare Daly is a nomad TD ... basically always somewhere on the shouty left - but with good money for some nice champagne and fine dining with her partner (and she's used to such, as she comes from a comfortable background)

I don't think she's any interest in reform ... just lots of shouting

The Sinn Féin dude's father was in the IRA ... and given the IRA teamed with Libya/ The PLO ... one might expect they fear Israel

Israel is well regarded for its UAVs - are the shouty left saying that we should embrago all goods from Israel ...or just ones with a military purpose ? The shouty left love polemics ... but rarely ascend to rigorous thinking ...

Criticism over plan to spend


cyp
SF are also against the proposed development of European arms tech. Which would make it less dependent on Israeli -or any other bad entity - armaments.

17. Deputy Aengus Ó Snodaigh asked the Taoiseach and Minister for Defence his views on a proposal agreed on 26 October 2016 that seeks to allocate €25 million annual funding for innovative defence technology over a three year period from 2017 under the so-called preparatory action for defence research; and his views on the opinion expressed by a person (details supplied), who said the EU subsidy had been largely driven by the European Commission and the arms industry. [33652/16]

Deputy Aengus Ó Snodaigh: This question relates to a huge shift in the European Union on research and development. Until now, it has been a peaceful participant in research and development. The proposal is to move towards funding research and development in, and creating, innovative defence technology. The question is whether the Minister of State has indicated to his fellow defence Ministers that Ireland will not partake in such initiatives and that it is contrary to the aims of the European Union.
 

truthisfree

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We can easily do without Israeli goods....How they treat Palestinians is disgraceful.
 

cyberianpan

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Well, military goods are simply low hanging fruit. We don't actually need these stupid military toys.

I'll just say this.
Israel is effectively acting like an apartheid state.
A Boycott on south african goods proved quite effective
under similar circumstances.
So why not try it with Israel?

Talk is cheap but economic sanctions have a concrete effect.

There are plenty of decent arguments available online for BDS.
I suggest you google 'em rather than expecting me to reinvent the wheel here.

I know where you are coming from but the fact is
free markets are never free in practice and they do not trump human rights.
You are not at all realistic regarding your naive faith in "the invisible hand" IMHO

Quite aside from the fact that the Israelis are total c*nts to the Palestinians,
logically we should not be importing so much food from Israel anyway.
Currently we import Israeli potatoes amongst other things FFS.
Ok - your proposal appears to be for wholesale BDS, including say agricultural produce from Palestinian areas ?

cyp
 
D

Deleted member 42179

Ok - your proposal appears to be for wholesale BDS, including say agricultural produce from Palestinian areas ?

cyp
I accept that a targetted approach to BDS that has a minimal impact on palestinians
while hitting the Israeli economy where it hurts would be best. Foods we know are produced in palestinian areas
could be given an exemption of some sort. Palestinians would no doubt be happy to co-operate on their end in their labelling etc.
It will never be perfect and will require a bit of thought to achieve the best result, but I still feel BDS is an effective tool in the fight against Israeli apartheid. The fact that they get so annoyed by this particular campaign while laughing off other useless verbal chastisements from various toothless talking shops is evidence of this.
 

cyberianpan

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I accept that a targetted approach to BDS that has a minimal impact on palestinians
while hitting the Israeli economy where it hurts would be best. Foods we know are produced in palestinian areas
could be given an exemption of some sort. Palestinians would no doubt be happy to co-operate on their end in their labelling etc.
It will never be perfect and will require a bit of thought to achieve the best result, but I still feel BDS is an effective tool in the fight against Israeli apartheid. The fact that they get so annoyed by this particular campaign while laughing off other useless verbal chastisements from various toothless talking shops is evidence of this.
I think I'd need to see a lot of detail to understand what it is you are even proposing

And what about Hezbollah Palestinians ... could fruit be bought from them ? Bombs ?

cyp
 
D

Deleted member 42179

I think I'd need to see a lot of detail to understand what it is you are even proposing

And what about Hezbollah Palestinians ... could fruit be bought from them ? Bombs ?

cyp
A simple study of Israeli / palestinian products and a shortlist of the hundred or so that would cause the most headaches for the regime would probably do fine as a base.

As for hezbollah olives and bombs, well, did we buy nelson mandela's bombs and oranges during the
south african boycott?

I know for certain that the world buys lots of Israeli military tech which is used to kill people so what is any different about buying hezbollah bombs? Except maybe the fact that their marketting is much much poorer and, oh right, the fact is we can't actually buy those products except in the realms of a mischievous smearing post on p.ie :p
 

Polly Ticks

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The specs are not all that impressive as drones go, considering the insane cost... a 2.5 kg payload (so it can be weaponized) a range of up to 40 km and an electro-optical/infrared sensor with a laser pointer. Some autonomous mapping and return capabilities.

Honestly I think the government --and several other governments that are using these things by the looks of it-- are being ripped off with million dollar pricetags for this kind of equipment.

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/aeronautics-launches-orbiter-2b-400502/

Let's not get suckered by unscrupulous arms dealers.

I see the drones are planned for use in Irish peacekeeping missions.. that is a virtuous use of drones in conflict zones.

But why aren't we building and developing them in Ireland?

With that amount of money you could set up a feckin' research institute and train people up. It seems short-sighted to spend so much money on overpriced tech that we could develop ourselves...
 

Elvis jaffacake

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Range is 80Km Polly..
While I agree that this is an area it would be beneficial to have our own, simple fact is we don't and we'd need a period of time to build up the operational and technological/knowledge base to get there.
The Israelis have been at the military UAV game for over 30 years.
 

Elvis jaffacake

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The plan to upgrade the 14 UAVs in service was outlined at a high-level meeting between the Department of Defence and the Defence Forces last May.

The Defence Forces confirmed the upgrade will cost €1.9 million, excluding VAT, and expects 12 new UAVs to be fully operational by next March.
A, I didn't think we had as many has 14

B, is that 14+12 to get 26 or are the 12 attrition etc replacements an we're sticking to 14ish?
 

Lumpy Talbot

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So is this the deal Shatter set up when visiting Israel around Paddy's Day a couple of years back- when his department refused to answer any questions from the media on his schedule in Israel?

I think Daly is right. We should not be buying from Israel.
 

Kevin Parlon

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The specs are not all that impressive as drones go, considering the insane cost...
Military grade equipment is a different league to commercial stuff.

But why aren't we building and developing them in Ireland?
1. We hardly have any defence forces here which would support the industry getting off the ground.
2. Any support the government might consider giving the industry would be shouted down by virtue-signalling leftists who seem to regard defence as a dirty word.

There is an industry, but it struggles. New Zealand, a comparable country in terms of size and wealth does things differently. New Zealand Defence Industry Association

With that amount of money you could set up a feckin' research institute and train people up. It seems short-sighted to spend so much money on overpriced tech that we could develop ourselves...
An interesting question to put to the goose and the gander referred to in the OP.
 

theloner

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What the feck do we need to be buying drones for? And even better, why do we need to be buying them from a terrorist state?
 

Elvis jaffacake

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What the feck do we need to be buying drones for? And even better, why do we need to be buying them from a terrorist state?
For reconnaissance it's not that hard to figure out...
 


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