Sinn Fein and the ANC.

farnaby

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Jacob Zuma, a man whose corruption and greed would put a combined Bertie/Lowry/Lawlor into the ha'penny place
Himself and Haughey would have got on great discussing their "country estates", astonished at the peasants' complaints about how they attained them.
 


Windowshopper

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The ANC were vital in ending apartheid. Without a doubt some horrible things were perpetuated by some of their supporters but in the end of the day a South African democracy with all it flaws is better than a racist and segregationist regime. The ANC unfortunately has become a victim of its own success: its role in ending apartheid has guaranteed it majorities, and as such the party and it's functionaries have become corrupt as it faces no effective political opposition. The best thing that could happen for South African democracy is if the ANC split.

The corruption which became associated with FF had a lot to do with its dominant position in the system and in GB when a council corruption reaches the news it's usually one with a guaranteed majority in favour of one party.

To put it simply a competitive party system helps mitigate corruption.
 

Belfastdan

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Oh I agree, but its all about perception but than there is the fact of the Shinners' apparent support for Boer genocide is downright disturbing in and of itself.
It would be well for you to remember that it was the British who put the Boers into concentration camps.
 

GDPR

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It would be well for you to remember that it was the British who put the Boers into concentration camps.
I havent forgotten that at all- it would be well for you to attempt something better than a pointless piece of whataboutry as well though.
 

derryman

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My sister supports the Traditional Unionist Voice, which opposes the Good Friday Agreement and claim's William Frazer's "Pastor" as a member, mainly in fairness because her boy friend is also a member of them, and sometimes we argue about politics; anyway her strongest argument and it has massive strength is the fact that the Shinners are still pals with the murdering rapist filth of the ANC after they have illustrated extremely clearly for anyone with eyes to see what twisted animals they are. This she says points to how the PUL community would be treated by the Shinners in a united Ireland- that those remaining would end up on genocide watch. A massive thing that would do so much to build up trust in Northern Ireland is for Gerry or Martin to come out and say clearly that they were wrong to aid the ANC and its no warning bombs and "necklaces".

[video=youtube;Yvv7sNPx5Ts]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yvv7sNPx5Ts[/video]

The mind of the average TUV supporter is a much murkier place than I thought.
 

offalypat

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My sister supports the Traditional Unionist Voice, which opposes the Good Friday Agreement and claim's William Frazer's "Pastor" as a member, mainly in fairness because her boy friend is also a member of them, and sometimes we argue about politics; anyway her strongest argument and it has massive strength is the fact that the Shinners are still pals with the murdering rapist filth of the ANC after they have illustrated extremely clearly for anyone with eyes to see what twisted animals they are. This she says points to how the PUL community would be treated by the Shinners in a united Ireland- that those remaining would end up on genocide watch. A massive thing that would do so much to build up trust in Northern Ireland is for Gerry or Martin to come out and say clearly that they were wrong to aid the ANC and its no warning bombs and "necklaces".

[video=youtube;Yvv7sNPx5Ts]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yvv7sNPx5Ts[/video]
is that martin have michael as a first name and is a member of ff
 

Jim Car

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Just consider the great job the ANC have done on the South African economy (straight out of the Mugabe school of economics) and you will see where SF policies would bring us
According to the EFF they have not done enough of a Mugabe job. They literally said they wanted to follow mugabes policies.
 

Ex celt

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This is a load of daft hyperbole, but the point is valid. The time is well overdue for SF to distance themselves from the ANC and that's nothing to do with the maligned Nelson Mandela either but rather his inadequate successors. As usual a liberation movement has turned into a kleptocracy. I can't imagine Martin or Gerry would feel comfortable in the company of Jacob Zuma, a man whose corruption and greed would put a combined Bertie/Lowry/Lawlor into the ha'penny place, who seems to have little trouble with the gunning down of scores of miners (and if they are, they should be ashamed of themselves).
By the same token is it not time for sf/ira to distance itself from the descredited supporter of international terrorism Sir Jeremy Corbyn?
 

making waves

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There is ample reasons to debate the antics of the current right-wing pro-austerity pro-big business government of the ANC (and SF's continued support for it) - but the tripe content of this thread deserves nothing better than being dumped into the zoo.
 

Karloff

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Being part of the Guard of Honour at that murdering scumbag Mandela's funeral and their continuing fraternal relationship with the ANC is showing support de facto support for Boer genocide.
That will happen in Europe in the future.

Already the argument for it is being framed. 'Europeans raped the Third World, they butchered our people and stole our inheritance' - is spoken freely in the pro immigration point of view in debates. After all, why even when you have the same numbers as them should you 'share' the land with a people who had butchered your ancestors and colonised their lands?

Numerous times the 'West' has sided against Christian ethnic Europeans and their interests.
 

GDPR

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That will happen in Europe in the future.

Already the argument for it is being framed. 'Europeans raped the Third World, they butchered our people and stole our inheritance' - is spoken freely in the pro immigration point of view in debates. After all, why even when you have the same numbers as them should you 'share' the land with a people who had butchered your ancestors and colonised their lands?

Numerous times the 'West' has sided against Christian ethnic Europeans and their interests.
Already in the 19 th century Thomas Caryle was heaping scorn on scumbag "Non-Conformist"/Puritan Industrialists raging about and weeping tears over chattel slavery in Dixie when their white British wage slaves (very often children) were suffering far more in their mines, mills and chimneys. The Plutocracy seems hell bent in destroying what is left of Western European Christian Civilization and turning our historic nations into a rootless, utterly degraded and easily manipulated bio-mass; this started in earnest in the 1960s and has increasingly sped up since the end of the Cold War.

What many people dont understand is that the Xhosa came into South Africa in the 1900s, 20s and 30s and that originally the South African Communist Party opposed this mass immigration- the Boers on the other hand were in the land before the Puritans landed in America. The story of SA and Palestine is a warning of just how badly mass immigration can turn out.
 

Cahal

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Thank you for that correction.

The vile murderer Nelson Mandela who was a prominent member of the ANC did of course found uMkhonto we Sizwe (abbreviated as MK, Zulu for "Spear of the Nation").

That organization executed and tortured people under the orders of the gruesome Mandela.

The TRC found that the use of torture by MK was "routine", as were executions "without due process" at ANC detention camps. This was particularly true in the period of 1979–1989, .


These scum were supported by the PIRA


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Umkhonto_we_Sizwe#Torture_and_executions
And tell me how many people were tortured by your fervent masters in Westminster and their lackies in the colonies. Not to mention all the civilians they have murdered in Iraq and Afghanistan over the last 15 years.
 

Hogsback

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On the spectrum of white underclasses the PUL community (and the NI working class in general) are closer to the SA end of the scale under Westminster rule than they would ever be under Dublin rule.
History has convinced me though that there is absolutely nothing that can be done to convince them of that - including SF throwing the ANC or anyone else, under the historical bus.
 

Karloff

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Already in the 19 th century Thomas Caryle was heaping scorn on scumbag "Non-Conformist"/Puritan Industrialists raging about and weeping tears over chattel slavery in Dixie when their white British wage slaves (very often children) were suffering far more in their mines, mills and chimneys. The Plutocracy seems hell bent in destroying what is left of Western European Christian Civilization and turning our historic nations into a rootless, utterly degraded and easily manipulated bio-mass; this started in earnest in the 1960s and has increasingly sped up since the end of the Cold War.

What many people dont understand is that the Xhosa came into South Africa in the 1900s, 20s and 30s and that originally the South African Communist Party opposed this mass immigration- the Boers on the other hand were in the land before the Puritans landed in America. The story of SA and Palestine is a warning of just how badly mass immigration can turn out.
This aspect of the issue of mass immigration into Europe is about making another pay for your sins. The elites of Europe and America promote it and they hire people to write articles suggesting it is justice or reparation for colonialism but mass immigration negatively affects only ordinary people so it is ordinary people who are being forced by the Euro rich (whose ancestors plundered Africa and America) to pay this restitution and share their land and future with foreigners, this restitution which is written down in the name of the country when it should not be, it should instead be written against those families and individuals and organisations that still control wealth derived from colonialism. (If at all - i don't think the Third World is owed anything - except in instances in modern times such as the Iraq war or the Libyan destruction).

Palestine which you mention is the classic case of transferring one's sins onto your victims. The Israelis label the indigenous as the terrorist, the murderer, the uncivilised - all the crimes of Israel itself going back 70 years of land theft and ethnic cleansing. They seek to unmake the Palestinian identity - they ultimately seek to unmake the Palestinian as a human being - because their crimes are not just crimes against group against ethnicity but often ordinary human rights abuses against right to life, right to freedom, right to property.
 

freewillie

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It would be well for you to remember that it was the British who put the Boers into concentration camps.
Andthe Swiss invented the cuckoo clock
 

freewillie

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This aspect of the issue of mass immigration into Europe is about making another pay for your sins. The elites of Europe and America promote it and they hire people to write articles suggesting it is justice or reparation for colonialism but mass immigration negatively affects only ordinary people so it is ordinary people who are being forced by the Euro rich (whose ancestors plundered Africa and America) to pay this restitution and share their land and future with foreigners, this restitution which is written down in the name of the country when it should not be, it should instead be written against those families and individuals and organisations that still control wealth derived from colonialism. (If at all - i don't think the Third World is owed anything - except in instances in modern times such as the Iraq war or the Libyan destruction).

Palestine which you mention is the classic case of transferring one's sins onto your victims. The Israelis label the indigenous as the terrorist, the murderer, the uncivilised - all the crimes of Israel itself going back 70 years of land theft and ethnic cleansing. They seek to unmake the Palestinian identity - they ultimately seek to unmake the Palestinian as a human being - because their crimes are not just crimes against group against ethnicity but often ordinary human rights abuses against right to life, right to freedom, right to property.
You forgot to mention Denis O Brien
 

MichaelR

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I do wonder why she thinks Shinners would rule a United Ireland. Their combined vote does not amount to a majority, now does it?

FG-UUP-United SDLP (that would be Northern SDLP, RoI Lab, RoI SD) sounds like a workable coalition to me. (Though I would have a problem with their likely foreign policy)
 

GDPR

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I do wonder why she thinks Shinners would rule a United Ireland. Their combined vote does not amount to a majority, now does it?

FG-UUP-United SDLP (that would be Northern SDLP, RoI Lab, RoI SD) sounds like a workable coalition to me. (Though I would have a problem with their likely foreign policy)
The Shinners are the largest party on the island. A lot of the SDLP wouldnt touch FG with a barge pole (and I dont blame them).
 


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