Sinn Féin bite the bullet and tell their supporters to vote for Pro-Westminster candidates

Mickeymac

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SF didn't campaign at all against Brexit. I think SF would be delighted with the hardest Brexit possible and I think all their actions show that. However they can't say that and it's important from their perspective that the DUP and/or Tories take the blame. If they could they'd blame the Irish government too.

The blame game is an impossibility for most parties as they have not the support of the toxic British media on their side and SF would prefer to see a non Brexit which coincides with the wishes of their electors....end of.
 


Levellers

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SF didn't campaign at all against Brexit. I think SF would be delighted with the hardest Brexit possible and I think all their actions show that. However they can't say that and it's important from their perspective that the DUP and/or Tories take the blame. If they could they'd blame the Irish government too.
They did campaign (not with the fervour of an election campaign though) and the only parties who advocated Brexit were the DUP and PBP.
 

The Herren

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Considering the fact that McDonald was standing outside the Dáil today with a Pro-Brexit TD, that could very well be the case..



And at the very same time, it's also a step towards a..





Nationalism is one of the six key tenets of Irish Republicanism, but last months strategy of building alliances with Pro-Separatists who hold 46 of the available 123 seats within the UK borders, seems to have taken a back-seat...

'Time to build a pan-Celtic political culture to defeat Toryism... - Sinn Fein
I never heard of these"Nationalism is one of the six key tenets of Irish Republicanism,". What are they?
 

Antóin Mac Comháin

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I never heard of these"Nationalism is one of the six key tenets of Irish Republicanism,". What are they?
If you don't know what they are by the time you start school, then you'll never know, and I suspect it would be a waste of both my time and yours, if I made the effort to explain them to you in short-hand; judging by your avatar, you're old enough to understand the fundamentals, were it necessary for you to do so.
 

Antóin Mac Comháin

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They call themselves Republicans, does that give you a clue.
So did the Irish Socialist Republican Party, and quite a lot of other parties since the 1890's, up to and including the old Sinn Féin party which stood on an abstentionist ticket in 1918 and formed an all-Ireland government in a National Parliament in 1919 = Nationalism is a primary tenet, a fundamental principle and a founding block of Irish Republicanism = Not to be confused with the absolute seafóid of Free Market Patriotism masquerading as Community Activism, Socialism and Republicanism in Leinster House, shoulder-to-shoulder with Irish Fascism.
 

midlander12

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'Time to build a pan-Celtic political culture to defeat Toryism

"Sinn Féin is an EU critical party."

Yea, I see what you mean. If you don't like last months principles and strategy, maybe you'll like this weeks? You must admit, it is odd, is it not, that a party which defines itself as an "Irish Republican Party" and an 'EU critical party" in October, would call on its supporters to vote for a Unionist Party in November, in order to defend the status of Ireland in the EU?
Far be it from me to defend or explain SF's reasoning, but 'EU critical' does not necessarily mean being pro-Brexit or anti-EU. The EU needs significant reform but that does not mean being in favour of Ireland withdrawing from it. But you know that.
 

Antóin Mac Comháin

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Far be it from me to defend or explain SF's reasoning, but 'EU critical' does not necessarily mean being pro-Brexit or anti-EU. The EU needs significant reform but that does not mean being in favour of Ireland withdrawing from it. But you know that.
Spotlight.How.to.Police.the.Dissidents.

15 minutes in - Tell me what the difference is between FF, SF, the IRA and the PSNI, as I'm at a loss to understand. SF seem to be a party of all things to all people, which is why they have become nothing to most people in the south. Ironically, the head of the PSNI in Derry was able to define the difference between the New IRA, which he defined as a bunch of thugs, and old-school traditional Republicanism, better than most young people affiliated to the glorified vigilante tendency represented by people like them, McAllister, McDonald, Adams and McGuinness.
 

midlander12

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Spotlight.How.to.Police.the.Dissidents.

15 minutes in - Tell me what the difference is between FF, SF, the IRA and the PSNI, as I'm at a loss to understand. SF seem to be a party of all things to all people, which is why they have become nothing to most people in the south. Ironically, the head of the PSNI in Derry was able to define the difference between the New IRA, which he defined as a bunch of thugs, and old-school traditional Republicanism, better than most young people affiliated to the glorified vigilante tendency represented by people like them, McAllister, McDonald, Adams and McGuinness.
What this has to do with Euroscepticism is beyond me. Frankly I couldn't care less about FF, SF, the IRA or the Dissidents or what differences they have - all of them represent the past as far as I'm concerned.
 

Antóin Mac Comháin

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What this has to do with Euroscepticism is beyond me. Frankly I couldn't care less about FF, SF, the IRA or the Dissidents or what differences they have - all of them represent the past as far as I'm concerned.
Well, you suggested it was far from you to explain the rationale of SF. They haven't exactly been impartial to throwing the odd spanner into the mix themselves, and I treat people with the same courtesy and respect, that they treat other people with. If they want to act like hard men and thugs, and at the very same time, as advisers to the PSNI, well then they should be treated as hard men and thugs. In Wales they speak of counter-revolutionaries, whereas in Armagh, they speak out of the other side of their mouths. There's something sick and twisted in the idea of a former IRA man in FF advising the PSNI about the bogeyman of Dissenting Republicanism. Apart from that, for me, anyone who doesn't get the EU after 2008, is beyond the pale.
 

Antóin Mac Comháin

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The North as en entity is finished.

The British Govt dumped the DUP/UDA faster than a rat up a drainpipe in an unmerciful demonstration of the utter contempt the British establishment has for the DUP/UDA.

A Re-United Ireland is inevitable - and a big thanks to the DUP/UDA by backing Brexit and bringing it right on to the front-burner.
Relatives of Birmingham pub bomb victims seek Irish support - Earlier on Thursday, the group met former taoiseach Bertie Ahern and ministers and senators who are part of the Good Friday Agreement Committee. – PA

Put a sausage through a sausage machine, and out pops a sausage. People ought to be a bit more careful, about some of the things that they wish for in this life, because the other side of that coin, looks more and more like FF-IRA-PSNI, by the day. The problem being that after the equivalent Irish establishment mould Revolutionary Irish Republicanism into its own image and liking, it will dump it likewise, faster than a rat up a drainpipe. A big thanks for what? 38 years have past since a Republican TD was elected.

Spotlight.How.to.Police.the.Dissidents.

15 minutes in - Tell me what the difference is between FF, SF, the IRA and the PSNI?
I think there is something very wrong about a FF-IRA man advising the PSNI in a partitioned Ireland, on the strength of the Dissident Republican Bogeyman, and at the same time, another former member of the same party, less than a month ago in Wales, was drawing comparisons between now and the counter-revolutionary period. Now, you need to be a really slow-learner to buy any of that. Hopefully the all new Bertie is better equipped this time to offer advice to victims than he was a little over a decade ago, and doesn't open his gob too often around the relatives of the victims he is manipulating for his own selfish and politically strategic reasons.
 
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Antóin Mac Comháin

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The blame game is an impossibility for most parties as they have not the support of the toxic British media on their side and SF would prefer to see a non Brexit which coincides with the wishes of their electors....end of.
The wishes of the electors? Let us do a check list? 1918? Pass. Lisbon? Pass. Brexit? Pass. Think, about. it. Odd, is it not, that Republicans would argue so enthusiastically in favor of one, but not the other? Is the Democrat the one who supports the Irish claim to Independence, the will of the majority in Ireland to leave the EU and the majority of the English electorate to do likewise? The recent revelation that the establishment have been engaging in voting fraud, would cause a violent revolution in any sane democracy. It's hard to teach an old dog new tricks, and when I look at SF, I see FF, and when I listen to the IRA in Armagh, I hear the PSNI. How did that happen? The moment EU MEP's started talking up an EU Army on Irish borders, was the moment anyone with a functioning brain-cell, could see that it was time for Ireland to exit stage left. Irish Republicanism is incompatible with membership of the EU in its current guise. Prior to Brexit, the EU sat by and done nothing when the government in London tried to gerrymander Cornwall out of existence, and likewise, it has done nothing about the Fascist government in Madrid who have literally declared war on the people and government of Catalonia, which leaves me under no illusions about where they really stand on Irish Democracy and whose interests EU Security really have at heart. All Brexit has done is demonstrate everything that is wrong with colonial Ireland's relationship with Britain and the EU. Ironic how a self-styled Irish Republican Party would support both administrations with the type of enthusiasm shown by SF and FF members, while creating the Dissident Republican and Socialist Republican Bogeyman, as they go along. I know how this story always ends.
 

Mickeymac

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The wishes of the electors? Let us do a check list? 1918? Pass. Lisbon? Pass. Brexit? Pass. Think, about. it. Odd, is it not, that Republicans would argue so enthusiastically in favor of one, but not the other? Is the Democrat the one who supports the Irish claim to Independence, the will of the majority in Ireland to leave the EU and the majority of the English electorate to do likewise? The recent revelation that the establishment have been engaging in voting fraud, would cause a violent revolution in any sane democracy. It's hard to teach an old dog new tricks, and when I look at SF, I see FF, and when I listen to the IRA in Armagh, I hear the PSNI. How did that happen? The moment EU MEP's start talking up a EU Army on Irish borders, was the moment anyone with a functioning brain-cell could see that it was time for Ireland to exit stage left. Irish Republicanism is incompatible with membership of the EU in its current guise. Prior to Brexit, the EU sat by and done nothing when the government in London tried to gerrymander Cornwall out of existence, and likewise, it has done nothing about the Fascist government in Madrid who have literally declared war on the people and government of Catalonia. All Brexit has done is demonstrate everything that is wrong with colonial Ireland's relationship with Britain and the EU. Ironic how a self-styled Irish Republican Party would support both administrations with the type of enthusiasm shown by SF and FF members, while creating the Dissident Republican and Socialist Republican Bogeyman, as they go along. I know how this story always ends.


Huge areas of discussion/debate generated in your post above sir, I reckon, at least, four new Threads Antoin.
 

NMunsterman

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Well, you suggested it was far from you to explain the rationale of SF. They haven't exactly been impartial to throwing the odd spanner into the mix themselves, and I treat people with the same courtesy and respect, that they treat other people with. If they want to act like hard men and thugs, and at the very same time, as advisers to the PSNI, well then they should be treated as hard men and thugs. In Wales they speak of counter-revolutionaries, whereas in Armagh, they speak out of the other side of their mouths. There's something sick and twisted in the idea of a former IRA man in FF advising the PSNI about the bogeyman of Dissenting Republicanism. Apart from that, for me, anyone who doesn't get the EU after 2008, is beyond the pale.



Jeez......so over 92% of the people in Ireland are "beyond the Pale" - according to you.

For what it's worth, those 92% "beyond the Pale" - according to you - will not under any circumstances allow Ireland to voluntarily become a UK whore-house again by leaving the EU at this moment in history.

The EU may not last forever - but right now it does and 92% of the Irish Nation in Ireland sees it as by far the best show in town for Ireland.


"Irish Republicanism is incompatible with membership of the EU"
- Antóin Mac Comháin

Those in Britain advocating that Ireland leave the EU are backed by "Policy Exchange" - the largest and also the most influential think tank on the British right, the Right wing of the British Tory party, UKIP and the Brexit party in Britain.
Moreover, these are Groups that are bitterly opposed to the GFA - just like the DUP/UDA - and who have nothing but the utmost contempt for the Irish Nation.

Interesting fellow-travellers you have.
 
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Antóin Mac Comháin

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Jeez......so over 92% of the people in Ireland are "beyond the Pale" - according to you.

For what it's worth, those 92% "beyond the Pale" - according to you - will not under any circumstances allow Ireland to voluntarily become a UK whore-house again by leaving the EU at this moment in history.

The EU may not last forever - but right now it does and 92% of the Irish Nation in Ireland sees it as by far the best show in town for Ireland.
I was referring to the Lisbon Treaty, when we were asked to vote twice, because we obviously voted the wrong way the first time, but if you want to pretend otherwise, knock yourself out: Twenty-eighth Amendment of the Constitution of Ireland ...

I actually like the idea of a European Union of sorts, but that's not going to alter the blatant anti-democratic nature of the institution.

"Irish Republicanism is incompatible with membership of the EU" - Antóin Mac Comháin
When Bobby Sands was elected, Republicans were opposed to the EU.

Moreover, these are Groups that are bitterly opposed to the GFA - just like the DUP/UDA - and who have nothing but the utmost contempt for the Irish Nation.

Interesting fellow-travellers you have.
Lest we Forget – Security Forces Created Shankill UDA ...

OK, but if the Security Forces effectively created and controlled the UDA, what does that say about people who support the former?

Leinster House and Stormont being the buffers between the Irish Republic and British Capitalism, people like McAllister have adopted the same ideological position as the counter-revolutionary National Army types of the 1920's, so your tone, implying that I have nothing but contempt for Irish nationals and interesting fellow-travelers, doesn't surprise me in the least.
 

The Herren

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So did the Irish Socialist Republican Party, and quite a lot of other parties since the 1890's, up to and including the old Sinn Féin party which stood on an abstentionist ticket in 1918 and formed an all-Ireland government in a National Parliament in 1919 = Nationalism is a primary tenet, a fundamental principle and a founding block of Irish Republicanism = Not to be confused with the absolute seafóid of Free Market Patriotism masquerading as Community Activism, Socialism and Republicanism in Leinster House, shoulder-to-shoulder with Irish Fascism.
I thought I might have learned something from you but alas, abuse is all I got.
I did learn however that you are like a lot of posters who are high on verbiage, they can waffle forever when speaking in the abstract but have nothing to contribute when addressing the particular.
 

NMunsterman

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I thought I might have learned something from you but alas, abuse is all I got.
I did learn however that you are like a lot of posters who are high on verbiage, they can waffle forever when speaking in the abstract but have nothing to contribute when addressing the particular.
Basically, you are articulating the point that he has exposed himself to be the BS-artist that he very clearly is.
 

Antóin Mac Comháin

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Jeez......so over 92% of the people in Ireland are "beyond the Pale" - according to you.

For what it's worth, those 92% "beyond the Pale" - according to you - will not under any circumstances allow Ireland to voluntarily become a UK whore-house again by leaving the EU at this moment in history.

The EU may not last forever - but right now it does and 92% of the Irish Nation in Ireland sees it as by far the best show in town for Ireland.
I'm not sure where you've plucked your figure from, but it would be a bit difficult for me to make a claim on behalf of any percentage of the Irish people, or to disregard the wishes of 92% of them, considering the fact that they haven't voted as a singular unit since 1918. Doh!

"Irish Republicanism is incompatible with membership of the EU" - Antóin Mac Comháin
Well, it's not that long since SF were telling people the Lisbon Treaty would dis-empower the Irish people:

"Lisbon equals less power: Article 6 changes the way in which key decisions at the Council of Ministers are taken. The changes would see Irelands voting strength reduced to 0.8% while German’s would increase to 17% and Britain’s would increase to 12%. The Council is where states are meant to meet as equals. The Lisbon Treaty significantly reduces Ireland’s strength on this important body." - Lisbon Treaty = A Bad Deal: McDonald | Sinn Féin

Can you point out exactly when and where there was an increase in Irish voting strength on the Council of Minsters between now and then?

Those in Britain advocating that Ireland leave the EU are backed by "Policy Exchange" - the largest and also the most influential think tank on the British right, the Right wing of the British Tory party, UKIP and the Brexit party in Britain.

Moreover, these are Groups that are bitterly opposed to the GFA - just like the DUP/UDA - and who have nothing but the utmost contempt for the Irish Nation.

Interesting fellow-travellers you have.
Not half as interesting as the fellow-travelers of the political party which employed the security guards involved in the very public eviction in Roscommon, less than a year ago.

Basically, you are articulating the point that he has exposed himself to be the BS-artist that he very clearly is.
In comparison to Provisional FF in Armagh, that's saying something. Out of curiosity, who elected Martin McAllister as the FF spokesman on Policing?
 

Pyewacket

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Who wants Brexit and who does not? Clue: the majority in NI does not want Brexit and that is a plurality of the vote, geniuses, or the vote would not have been 55.78 Remain

So who is speaking for NI and who is not?
 


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