Sinn Fein Collusion With MI5 Saved The Butcher Of The Bogside

Ardillaun

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Lets be clear here...….do you think a slow drip of revelations from members of the civilian population should take priority over atrocities carried out by the State against their own citizens?
Yes, let us be clear. For the state, few matters should be more serious than the security forces being involved in a secret assassination campaign. That is not what I asked, though. I asked you personally what you would find more shocking.
 


Ardillaun

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Alan turning and the lads during WW2 sometimes “let things happen” to protect the fact that they had the cypher cracked ...

They didn’t arm the Germans, give them lists of targets, clear the area while those targets were murdered and then let them escape & ensure (to this day) that they were never caught...
I’m not condoning in any way what the British did.
 

Mickeymac

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Dopey you really are a festering idiot of a bigot .... back under the car ffs .. and say hello to the DUP when ye get there ;)

Young history students today must be bemused when they read the crap pedalled today that the Brit exodus from France was some kind of VICTORY...…..truly unbelievable shit and an insult to fact.
 

Mickeymac

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Yes, let us be clear. For the state, few matters should be more serious than the security forces being involved in a secret assassination campaign. That is not what I asked, though. I asked you personally what you would find more shocking.

My thoughts were always crystal clear pal, the State is responsible for the protection of its citizens and certainly not for murdering them.....surely you get that much at least?
 

Mickeymac

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I thought you may be comparing what the Brits did in ww2 to what they did here .....
... I was simply pointing out there is absolutely no comparison

His post #41 suggests to me he targets individuals who he suspects have Republican sympathies...…….just like he always did.

😂

Sad but true sir.
 

Cdebru

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Oh Dear...……

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That's a cop out of a reply, I understand if you have invested yourself in the republican movement it is hard to ask these type of questions.

But sometimes you have to step back, and ask does this stuff make sense, why would the Brits completely ignore Liam Adams, how could 2 people at the very top of the republican movement remain relatively untouched for so long ?

Scapaticci ? How could someone like that exist and you not believe the entire movement was not compromised?

Look at what was happening in the Basque country, leader after leader of ETA arrested and imprisoned in short time, yet in Ireland only the foot soldiers did time.

Why were operations allowed to take place that were frankly designed to repulse the general public, Enniskillen, Warrington, proxy bombings ? Who thought that was a good idea chain a man to a van and blow him up under threat to his family FFS.

Lastly look at how on top of 'dissident' Republicans look what happened to its leadership then ask why the Brits or the Dublin Government never did that to the Provo's ?
 

Mickeymac

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That's a cop out of a reply, I understand if you have invested yourself in the republican movement it is hard to ask these type of questions.

But sometimes you have to step back, and ask does this stuff make sense, why would the Brits completely ignore Liam Adams, how could 2 people at the very top of the republican movement remain relatively untouched for so long ?

Scapaticci ? How could someone like that exist and you not believe the entire movement was not compromised?

Look at what was happening in the Basque country, leader after leader of ETA arrested and imprisoned in short time, yet in Ireland only the foot soldiers did time.

Why were operations allowed to take place that were frankly designed to repulse the general public, Enniskillen, Warrington, proxy bombings ? Who thought that was a good idea chain a man to a van and blow him up under threat to his family FFS.

Lastly look at how on top of 'dissident' Republicans look what happened to its leadership then ask why the Brits or the Dublin Government never did that to the Provo's ?


Wakey, Wakey, you ain't paying attention pal, most of your queries can only be answered by the Brits and why you picked on me is obvious by your opening paragraph.

Liam Adams, Scapaticci, Basque country, ETA, bombs in England, dissident republicans....all have sweet FA to do with the OP.

Are you trying to get me arrested for off topic crap which is a million miles off course?😂
 

Aindriu

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Actually, it says a great deal about how the British viewed Northern Ireland. In The Imitation Game, Alan Turing points out that not every convoy facing an attack detected by the code breakers can be saved and that many will have to die to protect this advantage. The British saw their moles the same way. The civilian and paramilitary victims of such a policy were only locals anyway.
They did the same with Coventry. They knew that Coventry was to be bombed - even down to the actual night - but did nothing as to have evacuated the citizens would have alerted the Nazis to the fact that Bletchley Park had cracked their codes.
 

Aindriu

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Anything a British whistleblower/Informer brings to light these days will not shock me as we all know what they done, it is justice for their victims I THINK IS PARAMOUNT.
What about justice for the victims of the PIRA, OIRA and INLA? They are still waiting.
 

AhNowStop

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They did the same with Coventry. They knew that Coventry was to be bombed - even down to the actual night - but did nothing as to have evacuated the citizens would have alerted the Nazis to the fact that Bletchley Park had cracked their codes.
Again, they didnt supply the Germans with the bombs, tell them where in coventry to bomb, clear the area to make sure that there was no resistance to ensure all the German bombers got away and then make sure that those same German bombers never got caught...

in WW2 they let things happen .. in Norn Iron they made things happen .. big difference dont ye think

tut tut, you guys are trying to make comparisons where none exist
 

Ardillaun

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Again, they didnt supply the Germans with the bombs, tell them where in coventry to bomb, clear the area to make sure that there was no resistance to ensure all the German bombers got away and then make sure that those same German bombers never got caught...

in WW2 they let things happen .. in Norn Iron they made things happen .. big difference dont ye think

tut tut, you guys are trying to make comparisons where none exist
All that is fine but it’s not relevant to the point I was making. Here is the post I replied to:

The turn toward politics was orchestrated internally by Adams as far back as the late 70s. If the PIRA were universally riddled with informers, it nevertheless managed to continue planning and executing attacks for another 20 years or so, which doesn't say much for the effectiveness of the British security services and their moles.
So the matter under debate is simply this: is the persistence of the IRA proof that it wasn’t riddled by informers? My answer to that question is in the negative. I mentioned Enigma solely to show that the British may have let the IRA carry on operations to protect its moles. I would have several other guesses as to why the Brits pursued this seemingly odd strategy:

1. The victims were overwhelmingly in Northern Ireland and thus had limited political impact.

2. Keeping a compromised IRA together as an organisation reduced the possibility of splinter groups carrying on the war after a peace deal was made. To some extent, the Brits turned the IRA and got it working for them.

The lack of curiosity about informers, and others who collaborated in lesser ways, here is truly striking. There must be many more of them who have yet to be exposed and yet everyone is singing la-la-la with their fingers in their ears.
 
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death or glory

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All that is fine but it’s not relevant to the point I was making. Here is the post I replied to:



So the matter under debate is simply this: is the persistence of the IRA proof that it wasn’t riddled by informers? My answer to that question is in the negative. I mentioned Enigma solely to show that the British may have let the IRA carry on operations to protect its moles. I would have several other guesses as to why the Brits pursued this seemingly odd strategy:

1. The victims were overwhelmingly in Northern Ireland and thus had limited political impact.

2. Keeping a compromised IRA together as an organisation reduced the possibility of splinter groups carrying on the war after a peace deal was made.

The lack of curiosity about informers here is truly striking. There must be more of them who have yet to be exposed and yet everyone is singing la-la-la with their fingers in their ears.
Like martin mcguinness aka the Fisherman.
 

AhNowStop

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All that is fine but it’s not relevant to the point I was making. Here is the post I replied to:



So the matter under debate is simply this: is the persistence of the IRA proof that it wasn’t riddled by informers? My answer to that question is in the negative. I mentioned Enigma solely to show that the British may have let the IRA carry on operations to protect its moles. I would have several other guesses as to why the Brits pursued this seemingly odd strategy:

1. The victims were overwhelmingly in Northern Ireland and thus had limited political impact.

2. Keeping a compromised IRA together as an organisation reduced the possibility of splinter groups carrying on the war after a peace deal was made.

The lack of curiosity about informers here is truly striking. There must be more of them who have yet to be exposed and yet everyone is singing la-la-la with their fingers in their ears.
Who knows dude ... I was just making sure you didn’t get “confused” by comparing the Brits in ww2 letting things happen with the Brits during the troubles “making” things happen ...
Two completely different scenarios .... the former understandable and the later disgraceful

I’ll leave you & whoever to ponder whether the various groups were riddled with informers or not ..

Edit - I notice dopey the dog has jumped in on your post so well done .. you should have hours of fun with that :rolleyes: 😂
 

Ardillaun

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Who knows dude ... I was just making sure you didn’t get “confused” by comparing the Brits in ww2 letting things happen with the Brits during the troubles “making” things happen ...
Two completely different scenarios .... the former understandable and the later disgraceful
I don‘t dispute that. The Brits were much more minor players in WWII than they imagine.


I’ll leave you & whoever to ponder whether the various groups were riddled with informers or not ..
I think the IRA was - the evidence points that way. The Brits learned a few lessons from their own abject humiliation by Philby and Co.
 
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AhNowStop

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I don‘t dispute that. The Brits were much more minor players in WWII than they imagine.
and much much bigger players during the troubles than they’re willing to admit ....
they directly murdered people and facilitated the murder of people ..., and they’ve been flat out trying to hide it and side step it ever since
 

Ardillaun

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and much much bigger players during the troubles than they’re willing to admit ....
they directly murdered people and facilitated the murder of people ..., and they’ve been flat out trying to hide it and side step it ever since
Yes, they did. I'm not disputing that.
 

Ardillaun

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Think of the leverage the Brit handlers still have over undisclosed moles. Your life is in their hands. What wouldn't you do to keep your role secret?
 

blinding

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Probably for the Brits they decided to “ Hang on to Nurse for Fear of Worse “ with Adams and McGuinness .
 


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