• It has come to our attention that some users may have been "banned" when they tried to change their passwords after the site was hacked due to a glitch in the old vBulletin software. This would have occurred around the end of February and does not apply after the site was converted to Xenforo. If you believe you were affected by this, please contact a staff member or use the Contact us link at the bottom of any forum page.

Sinn Féin DID NOT vote for the bank guarantee


taurus

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 23, 2009
Messages
339
Can we put this to bed, once and for all, for a lot of commentators and posters seem to believe that Sinn Féin DID vote for it, and a lot seem to believe that they DID NOT vote for it. I have read that on the evidence presented on that fateful night, Sinn féin did agree to back the guarantee as an emergency measure to stop a run on Irish banks. However ,once the detail was revealed and the initial evidence was exposed as lies from the banks, ,Sinn Féin subsequently withdrew that initial support and voted against the bill ratifying the Gaurantee, some weeks later. Can someone verify this and provide links to wherther they did or did not !
 

taurus

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 23, 2009
Messages
339
Isn't saying you 'll back something different than actually voting for something ?. On the basis of the information you give me I'll back this, ........eh listen you told me a crock of SH**, you can fec, off !!!!
 

EUrJokingMeRight

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 28, 2009
Messages
11,840
£28 Million euro in a foreign jurisdiction versus £50 BILLION euro in THIS jurisdiction.

I know what robbery would concern me the most.
 

edwin

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 5, 2009
Messages
6,139
Does anyone really care? SF are fairly irrelevant when it comes to economic matters so I don't think most people give a fig what they did with the guarantee. Actually taking a brave decision and sticking to it might have started to give them some credibility but it seems they can't even do that.
 

edwin

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 5, 2009
Messages
6,139
£28 Million euro in a foreign jurisdiction versus £50 BILLION euro in THIS jurisdiction.

I know what robbery would concern me the most.
What robbery is this? :shock: I heard of the Northern Bank one but have never heard of the other one.
 

taurus

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 23, 2009
Messages
339
Does anyone really care? SF are fairly irrelevant when it comes to economic matters so I don't think most people give a fig what they did with the guarantee. Actually taking a brave decision and sticking to it might have started to give them some credibility but it seems they can't even do that.
you care enough to post ,! A lot criticize SF for backin it as it was an idiotic decision taken after the bankers lied to FF ministers on that night, some maintain that they voted against it.Your a ffer or a fger or a banker !!. brave decision WTF !!!
 
R

RepublicanSocialist1798

Can we put this to bed, once and for all, for a lot of commentators and posters seem to believe that Sinn Féin DID vote for it, and a lot seem to believe that they DID NOT vote for it. I have read that on the evidence presented on that fateful night, Sinn féin did agree to back the guarantee as an emergency measure to stop a run on Irish banks. However ,once the detail was revealed and the initial evidence was exposed as lies from the banks, ,Sinn Féin subsequently withdrew that initial support and voted against the bill ratifying the Gaurantee, some weeks later. Can someone verify this and provide links to wherther they did or did not !
SF voted for the Credit Institutions (Financial Support) bill to be passed on the 1st October 2008.

Dil ireann - Volume 662 - 01 October, 2008 - Credit Institutions (Financial Support) Bill 2008: Committee Stage (Resumed) and Remaining Stages.

On the 17th of October SF voted, along with Labour, against approving the terms of the draft scheme of the Credit Institutions Scheme 2008, which was part of the CIFS Act.
Dil ireann - Volume 664 - 17 October, 2008 - Approval of Credit Institutions (Financial Support) Scheme 2008: Motion.
 

Donaill

Active member
Joined
Nov 22, 2009
Messages
115
Can we put this to bed, once and for all, for a lot of commentators and posters seem to believe that Sinn Féin DID vote for it, and a lot seem to believe that they DID NOT vote for it. I have read that on the evidence presented on that fateful night, Sinn féin did agree to back the guarantee as an emergency measure to stop a run on Irish banks. However ,once the detail was revealed and the initial evidence was exposed as lies from the banks, ,Sinn Féin subsequently withdrew that initial support and voted against the bill ratifying the Gaurantee, some weeks later. Can someone verify this and provide links to wherther they did or did not !
Here Sinn Fein's Finance Spokesperson Arthur Morgan explains Sinn Fein's decision to support the bill and also outlines their opposision to the terms of the bill.
Terms and conditions provide no return for taxpayers | Sinn Féin

Here he outlines Sinn Fein's opposision to extending the gaurantee.
Extension of Bank Guarantee will penalise taxpayers
 

ocoonassa

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 14, 2010
Messages
6,130
The Credit Institutions (Financial Support) Act 2008 a.k.a. Bank Bailout, is that we're talking about?

Only 18 TD's voted against, some abstained, none of them were Shinners, they voted in favour. The only people saying otherwise are fanboys, you can safely ignore them.
 

turdsl

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 2, 2008
Messages
26,085
I would be of the opinion that Sinn Fein have made a very wise decision in not agreeing with other opposition parties in having our GDP at 3% by 2014.Michael Noonan and Bruton were on today saying they agree with the 2014 figure. How can they forecast, when they say they have no figures to date. Every figure that Brian Lenihan has supplied over the last 2 years has been wrong.
 

CarnivalOfAction

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 15, 2010
Messages
16,545
Here Sinn Fein's Finance Spokesperson Arthur Morgan explains Sinn Fein's decision to support the bill and also outlines their opposision to the terms of the bill.
Terms and conditions provide no return for taxpayers | Sinn Féin

Here he outlines Sinn Fein's opposision to extending the gaurantee.
Extension of Bank Guarantee will penalise taxpayers
The link indicates that they voted against the CIFS Bill, having initially conditionally supported it. They were right to vote against this €50billion+ scam against Irish taxpayers but wrong to have even considered supporting it, no matter how conditionally.

They seem to have got their act together now, being outside the Crazy Consensus of 3% deficit by 2014 and all it entails:
Economy | Sinn Féin
 

redhead101

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 10, 2009
Messages
834
The link indicates that they voted against the CIFS Bill, having initially conditionally supported it. They were right to vote against this €50billion+ scam against Irish taxpayers but wrong to have even considered supporting it, no matter how conditionally.

They seem to have got their act together now, being outside the Crazy Consensus of 3% deficit by 2014 and all it entails:
Economy | Sinn Féin
SF voted for the Bill.

"An Ceann Comhairle: As the time permitted for the debate has expired, I am required to put the following question in accordance with the Order of the Dáil of 1 October 2008: “That sections 7 to 9, inclusive, are hereby agreed to in Committee, the Title is agreed to in Committee, the Bill is accordingly reported to the House without amendment, Fourth Stage is hereby completed and the Bill is hereby passed

Question put.

The Committee divided: Tá, 124; Níl, 18.

Tá:
...
Ferris, Martin.
Ó Caoláin, Caoimhghín
Morgan, Arthur...
 

DeputyEdo

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 9, 2010
Messages
3,462
How the hell can people not agree on this?????
There are people saying they did, and some saying they did until all the facts were known and then didn't.
It can't be both.
 

mido

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 28, 2007
Messages
3,374
How the hell can people not agree on this?????
There are people saying they did, and some saying they did until all the facts were known and then didn't.
It can't be both.
this is sinn fein - of course it can
 

Murph

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 4, 2009
Messages
3,207
I think we all know at this point what SF did and didnt vote for -even those who still are playing politics with it -as if it matters.

However, what really matters is what positions party's take from here on in with regards to the banks, the IMF/ECB deal, and the future economy.

Thankfully, its those matters that more and more voters are begining to agree with Sinn Fein on!
 

DuineEile

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 29, 2010
Messages
14,939
I think the position on it is that on a guillotine, SF voted for the bill.

The final contribution of Joan Burton, Caoimhín O'Caoláin and Richard Bruton is below.

Joan Burton
In the context of the Minister’s failure to meet, in any way, the legitimate requirements of the Opposition to protect the taxpayer, we are supporting him in bailing out some banks in order to protect the Irish financial system, on which people’s jobs, homes, security and mortgages depend. However, we do not want this to be cost free and without appropriate protection for the interests of the taxpayer. On that score, the Minister has failed the test set by the Labour Party and we shall not be voting for this Bill.


Caoimhín O'Caoláin

Deputy Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin: We are at a crossroads and the Minister is in the driving seat of a vehicle facing a number of choices. He can use the powers that will be vested in him as a result of the passing of this legislation wisely by ensuring a new route is embarked on regarding regulation of the financial sector, banking and other institutions. That is one of the real products that can result from the passage of this legislation. Over the past 48 hours we have heard account after account of the various excesses and abuses that have been the practice of the banks and other financial bodies in this State over many decades. That must end. A new beginning must be embarked on. I hope the Minister will have the courage to ensure that is the route we take. It is essential. There are many outstanding questions on the real outworking of this legislation. However, in consequence of what we recognise as a most serious situation facing the economy of this State, there must be a courageous response.

An Ceann Comhairle: Time is running out. I facilitated the Deputy.

Deputy Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin: We have serious questions and concerns regarding the Minister’s disposition to amendments presented, which he has not taken and to which he has not responded in an appropriate way.
An Ceann Comhairle: I must call Deputy Bruton.

Deputy Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin: However, the Sinn Féin Members will support the Minister in the passage of this legislation and we hope in the exercise of our democratic responsibility we will have the opportunity to ensure the transparency and accountability to this House that we sought in amendments presented in respect of the outworking of the powers now to be vested in the Minister and his colleagues.


Richard Bruton


This is an enormous change and this debate has been worthwhile. I welcome the concessions given by the Minister in respect of bringing the scheme before the House for positive approval. I welcome his indication that he will seek to put someone on the board and that there will be proper supervision of risk assessment. Misgivings remain and there are amendments I would have liked to have seen made. It appears that details I hoped would be in the scheme when it is presented next week will not be included and we must take it on trust that the Minister, along with his advisers and the Financial Regulator, will develop the appropriate controls and apply them effectively.

Fine Gael will support this legislation. It is vital to the stability of the banking system. We hope the moves taken by the Minister will have the desired effect. Concerns remain and these must be carefully managed. This is not finished business, but we give our support to this and wish the Minister well in the operation of the legislation.




So to summarize. Labour supported the Minster but because the tax payer wasn't getting a cut, they were not going to support the bill.

Fine Gael had misgivings, but were taking the Minister on trust.

SF wanted copious amendments, but hoped that in their absence, the Minster would use his powers wisely.


All in the course of a pretty rushed debate.

No one absolutley vindicated, no one doing anything for the wrong reasons.


Turns out the Minister couldn't be trusted to get it right.


Yes. That's right. This Bill didn't provide a guarantee. It allowed the Minster to provide "Financial Support" defined as a "loan, a guarantee, an exchange of assets and any other kind of financial accomodation or support."

In short, the Dáil voted to give the Minister power to do certain things, in what was decribed as an emergency situation.

When the scheme of what the Minister proposed to do was produced, Sinn Féin refused to support it, because they had misgivings about it.

Vote to give the Minster powers (he had a Dáil majority anyway) to deal with the situation, but oppose his actual measures when you see them, because you don't think those specific measures will work.

Seems reasonable to me.



D
 
Top