Sinn Féin "Make a Stand " Rally, Dec. 4th.

D

Duth Ealla

And you think this march is about facing reality? It's a pie in the sky fest aimed solely at maximising SF's vote - that's the objection that a lot of people here seem to have. I'll walk behind someone who'll say that they will cut and tax as required, not someone who pretends there is an easy way out.
I love it. SF are attacked for not being prepared to tax enough. The previous attack over the last few years was SF a tax crazy party.

In reality SF only every focussed on highlighting the fact that compared to the OECD average our tax take was tiny and in order to havea sustainable fiscal position we would need to reform it.

SF are in a hard position. They are attacked from the right as being economically unsound by a regime that shor dead and skinned the Tiger, and a FG who broadly would have done the exact same. While on the their left they are attacked by parties that will never put together a pre-budget submission because they jsut dont do that thing. (To be fair an exception would be the Workers Party who seem well capable of putting policy work together - but the rest of them dont have the ability to do it)

To be fair to SF its a hard slog but I think there policy work is starting to offer a good alternative.
 
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needle_too

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G

Gimpanzee

What I'm saying is at least the're marching , doesn't mean I am voting for them or will believe in SF policies . where are the Unions ? Unemployed ? and everyone else affected by these shower of banksters.

There sticking their head in the sand hoping it will all just go away, Don't rock the life boat or we'll fall out.
The unions are up to their necks in this - they facilitated the damage that Ahern's government's did to the country. The union leadership are insiders are fully focused on ring-fencing the gains made by their members in the public service and forcing the load onto others.

The unemployed - hopefully at home just sharpening the pencil for the ballot box and training the pet dog to attack on command.
 
G

Gimpanzee

I love it. SF are attacked for not being prepared to tax enough. The previous attack over the last few years was SF a tax crazy party.

In reality SF only every focussed on highlighting the fact that compared to the OECD average our tax take was tiny and in order to havea sustainable fiscal position we would need to reform it.

SF are in a hard position. They are attacked from the right as being economically unsound by a regime that shor dead and skinned the Tiger, and a FG who broadly would have done the exact same. While on the their left they are attacked by parties that will never put together a pre-budget submission because they jsut dont do that thing.

To be fair to them its a hard slog but I think there policy work is starting to offer a good alternative.
And what about the cuts required to compliment the tax rises? SF's economics policies have always been batsh!t. The fact that FF's have been totally destructive doesn't lessen that fact.

SF are in a more comfortable situation than any other party - the micro parties to the left are irrelevant in terms of a national debate. SF's reluctance to mention the word 'cut' is partially responsible for Labours policy of being a policy free zone, for fear of leaching votes from people who are in complete denial to SF.
 

Super8

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Months now calling for marches and demo's . One comes along , "na ,don't like this one so I wont bother"

Will you's ever get a grip and get up of your arses and stop waiting for someone else to do something.
If someone gets up off their arse in a forest, does anyone notice?
 

SlabMurphy

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"SF voted with the Govt in Sept 2008 like FG, Greens, BECAUSE IF THE BANKS WERE NOT SUPPORTED WE WOULD HAVE GONE LIKE ICELAND IN 24 HOURS. David McWillams etc all supported this move as IT WAS ESSENTIAL AT THE TIME.

Labour didn't vote for it, couldn't offer an alternative, just good old fashioned political point scoring and to hell with the country if it collapses. "

Slab showing all the economic sense of his manc property owning namesake - SF - still not able to break free of that FF-Lite with guns
No more than Catalpa, can you come up with a brighter idea than to support savimg the banks from crashing and the whole country with it on 29th Sept 2008 ?
 

needle_too

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No more than Catalpa, can you come up with a brighter idea than to support savimg the banks from crashing and the whole country with it on 29th Sept 2008 ?
See thats crap - the banks and the country wouldnt have 'crashed' if only the deposits were guaranteed....
 
D

Duth Ealla

And what about the cuts required to compliment the tax rises? SF's economics policies have always been batsh!t. The fact that FF's have been totally destructive doesn't lessen that fact.

SF are in a more comfortable situation than any other party - the micro parties to the left are irrelevant in terms of a national debate. SF's reluctance to mention the word 'cut' is partially responsible for Labours policy of being a policy free zone, for fear of leaching votes from people who are in complete denial to SF.
lets see what they put in their pre-budget submission. Then we will have the material to hand to discuss further.
 

cain1798

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But your Party voted with FF & FG to bail out Banks in September 2008!:oops:

Surely you have not forgotten already!:shock:
We didn't actually.

I wasn't going to get into this as regardless of the truth of something you're not known for changing your position, but then someone else said they agreed with you and I figured someone should put an accurate reflection of what happened on the thread.

Legislation in the Dáil must go through a number of stages to be agreed, five to be specific. At the end of each stage the Dáil must agree that it moves to the preceding stage, and then there's a final vote, the fifth stage, on the bill.

At an early stage in the discussions around the bank guarantee scheme (Credit Institutions Bill 2008) Sinn Féin supported the legislation moving to the next stage. This was not a vote for the bank guarantee. It couldn't have been. The agreed text of the bank guarantee hadn't even been finalised. As Sinn Féin made clear at the time, the party was opening to supporting the final version if certain amendments were made. Labour on the other hand, opposed it outright. Personally, I think Labour called it right.

When the final version of the legislation to give effect to the bank guarantee scheme came before the Dáil the changes Sinn Féin had requested were not in it. Accordingly, the party voted against it: RT News: Dil approves terms of guarantee scheme

I think Sinn Féin should have voted against it from the outset and the party was mistaken in its approach. But in an effort to try to be supportive of what the scheme was designed to do, the party was willing to support the process moving forward, but clearly stated in the Dáil and in public that they would only support the bank guarantee scheme if protections they requested were in it.

They weren't, so the party voted against the guarantee. It's a bit more complicated than your bald statement that we supported the scheme. But it's also more accurate and more honest.
 

Catalpa

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We didn't actually.

I wasn't going to get into this as regardless of the truth of something you're not known for changing your position, but then someone else said they agreed with you and I figured someone should put an accurate reflection of what happened on the thread.

Legislation in the Dáil must go through a number of stages to be agreed, five to be specific. At the end of each stage the Dáil must agree that it moves to the preceding stage, and then there's a final vote, the fifth stage, on the bill.

At an early stage in the discussions around the bank guarantee scheme (Credit Institutions Bill 2008) Sinn Féin supported the legislation moving to the next stage. This was not a vote for the bank guarantee. It couldn't have been. The agreed text of the bank guarantee hadn't even been finalised. As Sinn Féin made clear at the time, the party was opening to supporting the final version if certain amendments were made. Labour on the other hand, opposed it outright. Personally, I think Labour called it right.

When the final version of the legislation to give effect to the bank guarantee scheme came before the Dáil the changes Sinn Féin had requested were not in it. Accordingly, the party voted against it: RT News: Dil approves terms of guarantee scheme

I think Sinn Féin should have voted against it from the outset and the party was mistaken in its approach. But in an effort to try to be supportive of what the scheme was designed to do, the party was willing to support the process moving forward, but clearly stated in the Dáil and in public that they would only support the bank guarantee scheme if protections they requested were in it.

They weren't, so the party voted against the guarantee. It's a bit more complicated than your bald statement that we supported the scheme. But it's also more accurate and more honest.

Credit Institutions (Financial Support) Bill 2008 (Number 45 of 2008) - Tithe an Oireachtais

Credit Institutions (Financial Support) Bill 2008
An Bille um Fhorais Chreidmheasa (Tacaíocht Airgeadais) 2008

Bill Number 45 of 2008
Sponsored by the Minister for Finance
Source: Government
Method: Presented
Status: Enacted
Bill entitled an act to provide, in the public interest, for maintaining the stability of the financial system in the state and for that purpose to provide for financial support by the Minister for Finance in respect of certain credit institutions, to amend the Competition Act 2002 and other enactments, and to provide for connected matters.

You backtracked later because your rank & file went ape************************ when they discovered what your TDs had done that's why!
 

cain1798

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You backtracked later because your rank & file went ape************************ when they discovered what your TDs had done that's why!
So initially you said we backed the bank guarantee.

Now you acknowledge that we didn't and have tried to come up with an explanation for this that suits your political agenda.

As one of those members who disagreed with the decision to support the process at an early stage I recognise that the party went along with its position as publicly outlined. Our TDs said they would support it if protections were included and oppose it if they were not included.

They weren't so they voted against. As I've said, I still disagree with the party's approach to the guarantee. At one level it would suit me to say the party changed its position because members like me disagree with it.

But we should at least agree or disagree with what a party did, rather than with what we might like to suggest it did in order to fit in with our political agenda.
 

stripey cat

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Sinn Fein- Government signs up to worst possible option on Anglo Irish Bank

“Sinn Féin would have done things differently. We would have allowed Anglo Irish Bank to crash from the very beginning although we would have protected depositors. We would have allowed international bondholders to take the hit. These people are not children with piggy banks. They are gamblers that where in it for the profit and sometimes gamblers lose. It is they that should have taken the hit and not the Irish taxpayers.

“We have been calling from the beginning of this crisis for a state bank and it is not too late to nationalise AIB and BOI which would stabilise the Irish Banking system and facilitate sound growth in our economy.

“Lenihan made a huge mistake in bringing in the blanket guarantee in 2008...
 

stripey cat

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Sinn Fein activists dressed as the three stooges at a protest in early 2009.


- National News, Frontpage - Independent.ie

How anyone can still be saying that Sinn Fein support the government guarantee scheme years after images like this appearing the Irish Independent (the Indo ffs!) is beyond me.

There are none so blind, I guess, as those that do not want to see.
 

turdsl

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For crying out loud they have no credibility on this one

- because they voted with FF on the bank bailouts!

What part of this do you not understand?

For heavens sake, at this time it makes no difference just get on the street and let this government know it is time to go.
 

Absurdo

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Sssshhhhhhh

Don't tell anyone - according to Zerohedge 3.5 million Froggies are en greve right now and it's getting worse (better ?). Barely mentioned on RTE. Don't be getting uppiddy now. Cower down there and do your betters bidding.
 

new jewell

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A party within a Party...

But don't tell anyone...

PS We got the idea from the SF/WP taking over from the inside the Lab.....

er I'll stop there!:oops:
Not quite so right.
SF/WP rejects taking over Labour.
Says more about the state of Labour.
SF/WP later WP still there.
FF would be there for the taking now
maybe PSF/rejects might make an effort.
 

Blanchinner

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So initially you said we backed the bank guarantee.

Now you acknowledge that we didn't and have tried to come up with an explanation for this that suits your political agenda.

As one of those members who disagreed with the decision to support the process at an early stage I recognise that the party went along with its position as publicly outlined. Our TDs said they would support it if protections were included and oppose it if they were not included.

They weren't so they voted against. As I've said, I still disagree with the party's approach to the guarantee. At one level it would suit me to say the party changed its position because members like me disagree with it.

But we should at least agree or disagree with what a party did, rather than with what we might like to suggest it did in order to fit in with our political agenda.
+ 1
 

bored and fussy

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Who does SF want in government, I want to know this real bad ! how can you protest about cuts on Dec. 4th when we wont know the full extent of cuts until the 7th Dec.
think this march is just for old times sake.
 

cogol

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Apr 1, 2010
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Who does SF want in government....
We, ourselves. Alone?

Yes Sinn Fein initially supported the banking guarantee and it made me sick in my mouth. But I don't think anyone, not even Fianna Fail, knew that they'd be giving a blank cheque to the banks in question.
 


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