Sinn Féin more to the left than the 32csm?



PatsyDuffy LiamLynch

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And what path would that be? How is a UI going to be achieved?
There is of course, no certain answer. The 32s will back whatever means they see as best, unhindered by the OC brigade who are biting our dust, Beir Bua!
 

PatsyDuffy LiamLynch

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There idealogy isnt clear.

What is their attitude to the Free State for instance?
Our attitude to the free state is not dictated by leadership, we have seen were leadership in the past has left Republicans and members are not dictated to.

I do not recognize anyone who only governs 26 counties of a 32 county state as legitimate.
 

JoseyWhales

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I don't think this has anything to do with infiltration, but rather piss poor organisation and the fact they will take in anyone as long as they want 'Brits out'. Their claims to be of the left are a little hollow if this is the view of their group in the capital. Embarrassing.
Yet despite this the 32CSM is growing at a rapid rate in all key areas of the country, are probably the strongest republican group in the 6 counties and who have remained steadfast to core tenants of republicanism
 

Republican-Socialist

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Yet despite this the 32CSM is growing at a rapid rate in all key areas of the country, are probably the strongest republican group in the 6 counties and who have remained steadfast to core tenants of republicanism
The 32csm the strongest group in the 6, they barely exist in Belfast ffs.
 

Republican-Socialist

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Our attitude to the free state is not dictated by leadership, we have seen were leadership in the past has left Republicans and members are not dictated to.

I do not recognize anyone who only governs 26 counties of a 32 county state as legitimate.
Jesus H christ, yes, the concept of 'leadership' has failed republicans:-S
 

PatsyDuffy LiamLynch

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Jesus H christ, yes, the concept of 'leadership' has failed republicans:-S
Martin McGuinnes & Gerry Adams took control of the PRM and lead it down the slippery slope to capitulation. We wont have the same happen again.
 

Republican-Socialist

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Martin McGuinnes & Gerry Adams took control of the PRM and lead it down the slippery slope to capitulation. We wont have the same happen again.
And how can that be prevented?

And to blame the PRM's capitulation is a total over-simplification of that whole process. With the PRM's petit-bourgeois nationalist politics capitulation and taking seats in Stormont as pretty inevitable, it can't be blamed on 2 men alone.
 

SevenStars

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Martin McGuinnes & Gerry Adams took control of the PRM and lead it down the slippery slope to capitulation. We wont have the same happen again.
The Officials called a cease fire in 1972 at a time when their numbers were substanially greater than the Provos....But that didnt stop the Troubles, it just led to the demise of the Official Republican movement in the occupied six counties. It would better to look at the material conditions effecting things than blaming everything on a handfull of bad men.
 

Northern Voice

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The Officials called a cease fire in 1972 at a time when their numbers were substanially greater than the Provos....But that didnt stop the Troubles, it just led to the demise of the Official Republican movement in the occupied six counties. It would better to look at the material conditions effecting things than blaming everything on a handfull of bad men.
For once I (sort of) agree with you. I don't understand the discourse within dissident republicanism that tries to blame a few individuals for the abject capitulation of the Republican movement in Ulster. Republicanism failed collectively, from the very top to the IRA terrorists at the bottom who were being rounded up by an RUC at the top of its game. It is unfair to heap all the blame for the survival of Northern Ireland on McGuinness and Adams, from a Republican perspective, as they achieved more than any Republican has ever, or will ever, in Ulster. I would suggest that dissidents are angry at Adams and McGuinness because they were foolish enough to believe the GFA was a victory for their cause.
 

PatsyDuffy LiamLynch

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And how can that be prevented?

And to blame the PRM's capitulation is a total over-simplification of that whole process. With the PRM's petit-bourgeois nationalist politics capitulation and taking seats in Stormont as pretty inevitable, it can't be blamed on 2 men alone.

The Officials called a cease fire in 1972 at a time when their numbers were substanially greater than the Provos....But that didnt stop the Troubles, it just led to the demise of the Official Republican movement in the occupied six counties. It would better to look at the material conditions effecting things than blaming everything on a handfull of bad men.
The Officials didn't cement their weapons & begin administering British rule.

If you don't have a head then you can't be decapitated. That is my view and I'm not particularly worried about whether or not you share it.


It is 'over-simplification', yet controlling the leadership was one of the necessary maneuvers carried out by the British state, had the PRM leadership not been secured then there would never have been eventual capitulation. It was, of course coupled with an increase in loyalist violence, the free houses, the imprisonment or assassination of those who would oppose the surrender etc.
 

PatsyDuffy LiamLynch

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For once I (sort of) agree with you. I don't understand the discourse within dissident republicanism that tries to blame a few individuals for the abject capitulation of the Republican movement in Ulster. Republicanism failed collectively, from the very top to the IRA terrorists at the bottom who were being rounded up by an RUC at the top of its game. It is unfair to heap all the blame for the survival of Northern Ireland on McGuinness and Adams, from a Republican perspective, as they achieved more than any Republican has ever, or will ever, in Ulster. I would suggest that dissidents are angry at Adams and McGuinness because they were foolish enough to believe the GFA was a victory for their cause.
Since the day the feet of the foreign British oppressor planted on our shore there has been resistance & conflict.

The root cause of the conflict is the refusal of the British state to give the people of all 32 Counties of Ireland the right to vote on their own future in a democratic referendum.

The current Provisional Sinn Féin Strategy fails to deal with that, as does the entire political structure. Therefore the continuation of conflict is inevitable.

We are not 'Republican Dissidents', we may be dissidents from the mainstream movement but it was the mainstream movement who dissented from Republicanism.
 

Northern Voice

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Bring on a referendum, I say. Given the current climate there are very few on the island who want to see the economic, social and political upheaval reunification would bring.
 

PatsyDuffy LiamLynch

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Bring on a referendum, I say. Given the current climate there are very few on the island who want to see the economic, social and political upheaval reunification would bring.
Yet another misconception. I'd say between very few and no Republicans in the Occupied 6 Counties want to have a corrupt 26 County administration extend their rule and further exploit Irish men and women.

Ireland under capitalism, shall never be at peace.

And even at that, the amount of money pumped into Banks and civilian murdering machines each year would be more than enough to stabilize Ireland. The same can be said for 'Shell', the resources they are stealing could generate enough money to drag Ireland from recession.

For someone with so much to say about Irish Republicanism, you have no clue about it.
 

Northern Voice

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Yet another misconception. I'd say between very few and no Republicans in the Occupied 6 Counties want to have a corrupt 26 County administration extend their rule and further exploit Irish men and women.

Ireland under capitalism, shall never be at peace.

And even at that, the amount of money pumped into Banks and civilian murdering machines each year would be more than enough to stabilize Ireland. The same can be said for 'Shell', the resources they are stealing could generate enough money to drag Ireland from recession.

For someone with so much to say about Irish Republicanism, you have no clue about it.
And for somebody claiming to speak on behalf of Republicanism, you seem quite deluded about it. I'm not sure your anti-capitalist rhetoric is particularly prevalent amongst most Republicans north and south of the border. There are plenty of misgivings about capitalist society (I am a sceptic myself) but a resignation that it is the best of a bad bunch of economic systems. What is your vision for a free Ireland and how would you implement it? Your point about Northern Ireland Republicans not wanting to be ruled by the 26 country administration sort of proves my point, doe it not?
 

PatsyDuffy LiamLynch

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And for somebody claiming to speak on behalf of Republicanism, you seem quite deluded about it. I'm not sure your anti-capitalist rhetoric is particularly prevalent amongst most Republicans north and south of the border. There are plenty of misgivings about capitalist society (I am a sceptic myself) but a resignation that it is the best of a bad bunch of economic systems. What is your vision for a free Ireland and how would you implement it? Your point about Northern Ireland Republicans not wanting to be ruled by the 26 country administration sort of proves my point, doe it not?
Find me a Republican who would be happy to take the rule of Fianna Failure. Find me a Republican group willing to accept capitalism. I, personally seek a 32 County Worker's Republic.
 

Northern Voice

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Find me a Republican who would be happy to take the rule of Fianna Failure. Find me a Republican group willing to accept capitalism. I, personally seek a 32 County Worker's Republic.
I asked you how you would implement this 32 County Worker's Republic. Your silence is deafening, comrade.
 

SevenStars

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And for somebody claiming to speak on behalf of Republicanism, you seem quite deluded about it. I'm not sure your anti-capitalist rhetoric is particularly prevalent amongst most Republicans north and south of the border. There are plenty of misgivings about capitalist society (I am a sceptic myself) but a resignation that it is the best of a bad bunch of economic systems. What is your vision for a free Ireland and how would you implement it? Your point about Northern Ireland Republicans not wanting to be ruled by the 26 country administration sort of proves my point, doe it not?
Anti-capitalist rhetoric is massively prevalent among Republicans (especially in Dublin and Derry)....Im surprised you didnt realize that....However this rhetoric varies in sincerity. Also Republicans tend to hate the Dublin regime and are in favour of some type of federalism.

Even the Orga (Provisional) Sinn Fein posters I see around the place here have Connolly and sometimes even Che Guevara on them. Make of that what you will.
 

Northern Voice

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Anti-capitalist rhetoric is massively prevalent among Republicans (especially in Dublin and Derry)....Im surprised you didnt realize that....However this rhetoric varies in sincerity. Also Republicans tend to hate the Dublin regime and are in favour of some type of federalism.

Even the Orga (Provisional) Sinn Fein posters I see around the place here have Connolly and sometimes even Che Guevara on them. Make of that what you will.
That's my point - it is very easy to adopt the appearance of being anti-capitalist but whether this translates into a political vision I am not sure. I do not like capitalism but I do not envisage its overthrow.
 

PatsyDuffy LiamLynch

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I asked you how you would implement this 32 County Worker's Republic. Your silence is deafening, comrade.
The silence couldn't be as deafening as the stupidity of the question. You're asking me how I would implement it, I copy and paste the usual stuff (setting up soviets, nationalizing banks & industry etc.), then you pick it apart and we squabble on.

I'm not here to educate you.

Anti-capitalist rhetoric is massively prevalent among Republicans (especially in Dublin and Derry)....Im surprised you didnt realize that....However this rhetoric varies in sincerity. Also Republicans tend to hate the Dublin regime and are in favour of some type of federalism.

Even the Orga (Provisional) Sinn Fein posters I see around the place here have Connolly and sometimes even Che Guevara on them. Make of that what you will.
Republicanism & Socialism are inseparable.
 


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