Sinn Féin out in front again with Budget Submission.

sparkey321

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Sinn Fein has had this policy since 2007. Since then both Labour and Fine Gael have copied it. Looks like it will be Fianna Fail for you!!!!
Are you mad.....

Please please point to where FG say they favour tax increases over cuts ???
 


Liza G

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Nov 18, 2008
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20
Kevin,
Theres a difference between saying *some* senior staff are overpayed, and saying they'd do the job for 100k. Most Sec Gens walk into the consultancy world when they retire. Consultants will work private instead. You wont get a head of the HSE for 100k. You won't get a head of the DAA for 100k. You won't get a head of the ESB for 100k. Etc.

When private enterprise can commonly pay CEOs €500kand senior staff 200k+, you wont have real quality in the public service/semi states. You'll get the left overs.

Put it this way. RTE pays their stars a flat 100k. TV3 signs them up for 150k. Its that on a massive scale.
Until recently I too would have agreed with these sentiments. I believed that our politicans should be extremely well paid in order to avoid corruption and attract the brightest and best into politics. Likewise top people in the public and private sectors - these were the people with superior abilities whose advice could be relied on and who knew all the answers. Like many others I have had my eyes opened.
Our politicans have failed us. Maybe we need to return to the days when politics was largely regarded as a vocation and not a career.
Likewise the higher level public servants have failed us. Paying top dollar has not improved the public service - HSE, FAS, DAA, Dept. of Finance, RTE, etc. A salary cap of €100,000 will hardly make matters worse.
Surely the one lesson to be learnt from the Banking fiasco is that paying big money does not guarantee success. The best Economic and Financial brains in the country were employed by the Banks. They were paid exhorbitant salaries. In a short space of time they managed to bankrupt their own companies, along with the country, while they never even saw the crisis coming.
 

SFInbhear

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443
Are you mad.....

Please please point to where FG say they favour tax increases over cuts ???
This was one of their policies around budget time last year. However it could have easily been one of Enda Kenny's many solo runs that he went on!!!!
 

rockofcashel

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Just think how much better off the country would be today if some of those proposal were implemented then,
Sinn Fein also proposed a National Housing Agnecy and National Housing Strategy almost a decade ago IIRC, which would have included a major home building programme for people on lower to middle incomes.

Notice there I said HOME building, not house building.

Instead, we got a Government who left house building completely to the private sector, which effectively forced people into the housing market at prices way above what they could reasonably afford, and which has left the construction industry completely banjaxed for the next decade or two.

I was in an estate agency today chatting to one of the employees and even I couldn't get over the cost of rent or sales that were being offered in town.

Houses that were on sale two years ago for 255,000/275,000 being priced at 170,000/160,000 and being bluntly told that if I can come up with 150k, that the sellers will take hand and all off me.

Even at that, I was told, that they could reduce prices by another 50% and they probably still wouldnt sell most of them, because people can't get mortgages in any case.
 

Éireann go Brách

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I believe in a maxiumum wage however 100K is too low
it should be somewhere 170-200K
and I also recognise that there are exceptions to this rule
i.e. I just saw on news that the new AIB boss(which we more or less own) is on 500,000
Perhaps if one requires a banker of a certain level of level of skill
this is what one must pay (I don't know)
If the competion with the private sector dicates that certain
key personnel are required to be paid more than maxiumum wage
these can be reviewed on a case by case busineess
by the cabinet and ideally signed off by Dail.


In an ideal world there would be some sort of maximum wage
or wealth cap in the private sector as well IMO.
 

CarnivalOfAction

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Of course its unenforceable. Its crazy! You'll have an immeidate brain drain of the best senior staff across the board of public services.
I wish! It's a pity these SF ideas weren't implemented in the 2000s; we could have got rid of Greedy Grabbers like Neary, Molloy, Pat Kenny, Moanin Joe, etc & saved the country from ruin.
 

Éireann go Brách

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I just had a quick read of their submission.
I notice it does not mention the ODA(irish aid) budget once AFAIK
of 671 million

whats their policy here?
 

factual

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Sinn Féin will present their budget submission tommorrow in Buswells hotel. Once again the Shinners are out of the blocks first to present an alternative budget. This should make some interesting reading, and at least there are actual proposals to examine, unlike Labours blow in the wind approach.
Well said taurus.
 

ocoonassa

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we need to return to the days when politics was largely regarded as a vocation and not a career.
Amen. At the moment with the huge wages it's attracting every greedy sociopath in the land.
 

MASURIAN1

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Nov 16, 2009
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AFAIK there is no proposal to cut international aid.
That worries me. I like the wealth tax, the salary cap (in principle), but the taxes raised and savings made should not be squandered on pointless foreign aid. This is the left's Achilles' heel, spending on their pet projects, perhaps what we need is a left wing tax collection dept and a right wing spending dept.
 

CarnivalOfAction

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I believe in a maxiumum wage however 100K is too low
it should be somewhere 170-200K
and I also recognise that there are exceptions to this rule
i.e. I just saw on news that the new AIB boss(which we more or less own) is on 500,000
Perhaps if one requires a banker of a certain level of level of skill
this is what one must pay (I don't know)
If the competion with the private sector dicates that certain
key personnel are required to be paid more than maxiumum wage
these can be reviewed on a case by case busineess
by the cabinet and ideally signed off by Dail.


In an ideal world there would be some sort of maximum wage
or wealth cap in the private sector as well IMO.
Previous banksters like FFingers, FFitzy, et al were on €3m/yr. Performance is inversly proportional to pay.
 

CarnivalOfAction

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what we need is a left wing tax collection dept and a right wing spending dept.
We've already had a right wing spending dept; it was a maFFia, which spent on FF cronies in private consultancies, PPPs, etc; rem Westlink?
 

ocoonassa

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pointless foreign aid.
Is actually slush money, a pot from which to bribe corruptible foreign despots into letting go of their peoples resources on the cheap. The Irish so-called left wing will not cut this fund and nor will the right wing.

Of course they and their consolidated media dress all this up as doing the third world a big huge favour. It's nothing of the sort, don't let them dupe you.
 

disgruntledcitizen

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God where were you for the last 5 years, You think Mr Drum did a good job, I would hope somebody on around 60, 000 would do a much better,, Oh, Yes, we heard about CEO bankers would leave the country if they did not get their big salaries and bonuses, What a pity they were not let leave. BTW, The whole health service has collapsed due to high salaries at the top. Who were the people who bought a computer system for 220 million that never worked. So much for you argument, salaries and quality
my biggest complaint in that regard is not the salary level persay (though there is no doubt that many of them are grossly over paid) but the fact that head's didn't roll, no one was fired for that any many of the other messes, had they been in the private sector they would have been fired on mass, then again i suspect that would never have happened in the private sector as financial and project controls would not have allowed it to happen once let alone time after time after time.

if there is no consequences for their actions then what do they have to worry about success / failure / cost over runs on these projects, be they IT, roads or other
 

CarnivalOfAction

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my biggest complaint in that regard is not the salary level persay (though there is no doubt that many of them are grossly over paid) but the fact that head's didn't roll, no one was fired for that any many of the other messes, had they been in the private sector they would have been fired on mass, then again i suspect that would never have happened in the private sector as financial and project controls would not have allowed it to happen once let alone time after time after time.

if there is no consequences for their actions then what do they have to worry about success / failure / cost over runs on these projects, be they IT, roads or other
It's not just the public sector FFat cats that weren't fired en masse [if that's what you mean]; the likes of FFingers & FFitzy trousered millions & then ambled off with obscene pensions. Goes to show that the real divide isn't between public & private but between rich & poor. And the greedy rich will fight like rats to hang onto their ill-gotten gains; watch the attacks on SF begin in earnest.
 

antsrathcam

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Jul 29, 2010
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I have never posted anything positive about the Shinners on here.

But I have read their proposals and they are not bad at all.

They have a reputation as economic fantasists on the southern side of the border.

A bit more stuff like this and that reputation will be in tatters.


Well done Sinn Féin, you are getting real.
 

Murph

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Who are the authors of that reputation 'antsrathcam'?

And watch them set to work in the coming days to undermine the SF postiton again, but they are already losing credibility themselves.

As Carnival said, watch out for the attcks to begin in earnest - Or as Connolly would say -wait for the Carnival of Reaction!
 

Blanchinner

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Aug 25, 2010
Messages
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I have never posted anything positive about the Shinners on here.

But I have read their proposals and they are not bad at all.

They have a reputation as economic fantasists on the southern side of the border.

A bit more stuff like this and that reputation will be in tatters.


Well done Sinn Féin, you are getting real.
Have to say ,fair play to you for reading the proposals. Its all that can be asked. To most of those here , I urge you to read the submission, if you don't agree thats one thing , but at least read the document. The Sinn Féin proposals give a clear and alternative way out of this mess.
 

TimBuckII

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Jan 21, 2008
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Yes I am
Kevin,
Theres a difference between saying *some* senior staff are overpayed, and saying they'd do the job for 100k. Most Sec Gens walk into the consultancy world when they retire. Consultants will work private instead. You wont get a head of the HSE for 100k. You won't get a head of the DAA for 100k. You won't get a head of the ESB for 100k. Etc.

When private enterprise can commonly pay CEOs €500kand senior staff 200k+, you wont have real quality in the public service/semi states. You'll get the left overs.

Put it this way. RTE pays their stars a flat 100k. TV3 signs them up for 150k. Its that on a massive scale.
You can put it that way but that's not the way it is. TV3 are not paying 100K and therefore they are flocking to RTE. Now if you think there is only one possible set of stars then you have failed before you start.
 


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