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Sinn Fein peoples' views on a Labour-Sinn Fein alliance?


Joined
Jun 2, 2007
Messages
4
Already posted on the Labour page you can see my post about this alliance,but I would like to hear the shinners veiw on the somewhat probable alliance,whicj has already started in the Seanad.

This seems to be good for SF

As a person who supports Labour and Sinn Fein,I find this interesting and suprising.
 

bogtrotter

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Joined
May 30, 2007
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3,417
As a socialiast I have always supported Sinn Fein and labour and will continue to do so,

In my opinion this is the only alternative that will be available to the Irish people in future elections, force FF and FG to come together and then we can have a choice....
 

BuachaillBeo

Member
Joined
Jun 14, 2007
Messages
66
That's it, the left lacks some much needed unity. It's weak in Ireland at the moment considering, but showing greater support for one another can only be beneficial for both parties
 

baldur0300

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Joined
Oct 17, 2005
Messages
761
bogtrotter said:
As a socialiast I have always supported Sinn Fein and labour and will continue to do so,

In my opinion this is the only alternative that will be available to the Irish people in future elections, force FF and FG to come together and then we can have a choice....
Not going to happen while I, or people like me, still have blood flowing through our veins and I think the blueshirts feel the same way. By all means dream away but it aint happening.
 
Joined
Jun 2, 2007
Messages
4
keep on dreaming

Dev s killing of collins is the reason why FF + fg will always be enemies.

But,understand me,I agree with everything you say,but don't think that part will happen,thats all.
Which can be good,becuase then the "right" is divided
 

pluralist

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Jan 13, 2005
Messages
180
I would like to see SF embracing more green principles.

I think that the Labour party are history, frankly (the election of that boring non-entity Gilmore was the nail in the coffin) and SF should avoid hitching themselves to Labour.
 

factual

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Feb 5, 2005
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8,761
Re: Sinn Fein peoples' veiws on a Labour-Sinn Fein alliance?

fionn_socialist-Edward said:
Already posted on the Labour page you can see my post about this alliance,but I would like to hear the shinners veiw on the somewhat probable alliance,whicj has already started in the Seanad.

This seems to be good for SF

As a person who supports Labour and Sinn Fein,I find this interesting and suprising.
Very good for Sinn Féin and good for Labour - maximizing the potential for left wing politics.

Would be great if Labour and SF pledged to enter the next government ONLY as a pair--on a left wing ticket.
 

baldur0300

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Joined
Oct 17, 2005
Messages
761
Re: keep on dreaming

fionn_socialist-Edward said:
Dev s killing of collins is the reason why FF + fg will always be enemies.

But,understand me,I agree with everything you say,but don't think that part will happen,thats all.
Which can be good,becuase then the "right" is divided
I could but why bother
 

pluralist

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Jan 13, 2005
Messages
180
Re: Sinn Fein peoples' veiws on a Labour-Sinn Fein alliance?

factual said:
Very good for Sinn Féin and good for Labour - maximizing the potential for left wing politics.

Would be great if Labour and SF pledged to enter the next government ONLY as a pair--on a left wing ticket.
No, it wouldn't. It would absolutely destroy SF, electorally. I couldn't off the top of my head, think of a worst strategy for SF. Going in with a bunch of soft-left Ranelagh champagne-socalist social democrats, with a history of hostility to Irish Republicanism, is the last thing your party should do.
 

baldur0300

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Oct 17, 2005
Messages
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Re: Sinn Fein peoples' veiws on a Labour-Sinn Fein alliance?

pluralist said:
factual said:
Very good for Sinn Féin and good for Labour - maximizing the potential for left wing politics.

Would be great if Labour and SF pledged to enter the next government ONLY as a pair--on a left wing ticket.
No, it wouldn't. It would absolutely destroy SF, electorally. I couldn't off the top of my head, think of a worst strategy for SF. Going in with a bunch of soft-left Ranelagh champagne-socalist social democrats, with a history of hostility to Irish Republicanism, is the last thing your party should do.
It would also cause FG transfers to Labour to dry up, not that they did much good this time but still ..........
 

factual

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Feb 5, 2005
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8,761
Re: Sinn Fein peoples' veiws on a Labour-Sinn Fein alliance?

pluralist said:
factual said:
Very good for Sinn Féin and good for Labour - maximizing the potential for left wing politics.

Would be great if Labour and SF pledged to enter the next government ONLY as a pair--on a left wing ticket.
No, it wouldn't. It would absolutely destroy SF, electorally. I couldn't off the top of my head, think of a worst strategy for SF. Going in with a bunch of soft-left Ranelagh champagne-socalist social democrats, with a history of hostility to Irish Republicanism, is the last thing your party should do.
LOL at gall of Green Party supporter saying this :roll:
 

baldur0300

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Joined
Oct 17, 2005
Messages
761
Re: Sinn Fein peoples' veiws on a Labour-Sinn Fein alliance?

factual said:
pluralist said:
factual said:
Very good for Sinn Féin and good for Labour - maximizing the potential for left wing politics.

Would be great if Labour and SF pledged to enter the next government ONLY as a pair--on a left wing ticket.
No, it wouldn't. It would absolutely destroy SF, electorally. I couldn't off the top of my head, think of a worst strategy for SF. Going in with a bunch of soft-left Ranelagh champagne-socalist social democrats, with a history of hostility to Irish Republicanism, is the last thing your party should do.
LOL at gall of Green Party supporter saying this :roll:
Go on. Explain
 

Insider2007

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Joined
Apr 27, 2007
Messages
213
Re: Sinn Fein peoples' veiws on a Labour-Sinn Fein alliance?

factual said:
fionn_socialist-Edward said:
Already posted on the Labour page you can see my post about this alliance,but I would like to hear the shinners veiw on the somewhat probable alliance,whicj has already started in the Seanad.

This seems to be good for SF

As a person who supports Labour and Sinn Fein,I find this interesting and suprising.
Very good for Sinn Féin and good for Labour - maximizing the potential for left wing politics.

Would be great if Labour and SF pledged to enter the next government ONLY as a pair--on a left wing ticket.
Unrealistic, Factual. Labour would be making a fatal mistake doing that. It would cost it most FF transfers and most FG transfers because neither would transfer to Labour if the beneficiaries would be SF.

SF might benefit from Labour transfers, but Labour would be committing political suicide. What Labour would gain from SF transfers would tiny compared to what it would lose from transfers from everyone else. So it would cost Labour seats.

A Labour-SF pact would I suspect boost SF but damage Labour.
 

popper

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Joined
Oct 4, 2004
Messages
297
Re: Sinn Fein peoples' veiws on a Labour-Sinn Fein alliance?

factual said:
pluralist said:
factual said:
Very good for Sinn Féin and good for Labour - maximizing the potential for left wing politics.

Would be great if Labour and SF pledged to enter the next government ONLY as a pair--on a left wing ticket.
No, it wouldn't. It would absolutely destroy SF, electorally. I couldn't off the top of my head, think of a worst strategy for SF. Going in with a bunch of soft-left Ranelagh champagne-socalist social democrats, with a history of hostility to Irish Republicanism, is the last thing your party should do.
LOL at gall of Green Party supporter saying this :roll:


Seems the Green Party supporter knows what he/she is actually talking about.
 

Wolverine

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Sep 11, 2006
Messages
86
I think factual finds the idea of a green sneering at Labour for being "soft-left ranelagh social democrats" a bit of a joke.

I mean, the Greens are the ultimate cappuchino type politicans. From Chemical Ciaran Cuffe (and his millions) to John Gormley and his D4 pretentions, the Greens are unlikely people to be sneering others on this kind of thing.
 

popper

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Joined
Oct 4, 2004
Messages
297
I was referring to pluralist's analysis of the likely electoral impact.

But come to think of it, Greens are more pleasant people as well.
 

Tiernanator

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Joined
Jun 2, 2007
Messages
345
I see Labour, Greens and Sinn Fein and even some of FF and FG people as allies on the left. I have met people from all these parties who I consider socialist or at least strong social democratic. So maybe we should ditch the civil war crap and start afresh.
 

ON THE ONE ROAD

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Joined
Jun 20, 2005
Messages
4,546
pluralist said:
I would like to see SF embracing more green principles.

I think that the Labour party are history, frankly (the election of that boring non-entity Gilmore was the nail in the coffin) and SF should avoid hitching themselves to Labour.
agree with you on the green principles.

Think that the mullingar accord showed the stupidity of smaller parties doing pre election deals with bigger parties but if issues of comonality arose i think it would be foolish not to have some form of organised coperation to maximise resourses on spicific issue campaigns.
 

owenfeehan

Member
Joined
Jun 4, 2005
Messages
54
I think co-operation is a good thing for both parties. The left in Ireland is not strong. Whatever hope it has through co-operation, it has next to no hope alone.

That's not to advocate a merger, as both parties are very different and have very different principles (and electoral catchment groups). But co-ordinated co-operation must be a positive thing.

Now that Sinn Fein have established themselves as being committed to exclusively democratic means, there is no "live" political barrier to making co-operation happen, so let's do it!

Sure some transfers (and even 1st preferences) might be lost, but some will be gained too, and in mean time it increases the capacity of both parties to hammer home messages on a whole variety of areas which successive centre-right governments in Ireland have been woefully deficient - social justice, equal opportunity, first-class healthcare for one and all, high-quality public transport, development aid and human rights, tackling the drug problem, ridding our communities of crime and anti-social-behaviour etc.
 

Worldbystorm

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Joined
Apr 6, 2005
Messages
321
Tiernanator said:
I see Labour, Greens and Sinn Fein and even some of FF and FG people as allies on the left. I have met people from all these parties who I consider socialist or at least strong social democratic. So maybe we should ditch the civil war crap and start afresh.
Completely agree. Labour, SF and the GP should be natural allies. Between them they could potentially get over 40 TDs, a significant bloc in any future Dáil. And the nature of the alliance might predicate against serious losses of transfers from other parties.

Incidentally to characterise Labour as a broad party as "soft-left ranelagh social democrats" is rather entertaining. Ever met any Labour party members in working class areas? A bit different to that in my experience. Their leadership has on ocassion however not assisted in killing that image.

Mind you, to say Gormley has D4 pretentions is a bit rich too. There's a man who knows his Andre Gorz.
 
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