Slouching toward the singularity and data warehousing by the crossroads.

Lumpy Talbot

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I debated putting this opener in 'health and society' as the effects of the subject could be felt in there as much as in education and science.

Certainly the social effects of a coming convergence in understanding of technology and the use of it will have far-reaching applications for human health and will certainly raise questions more appropriate for a 'society' sub-forum.

Watching a few areas of development- such as Google DeepMind's engagement with various NHS trusts on crunching vast amounts of patient data, and their offer to have their AI algorithm engage with saving vast amounts of wasted power across electricity supply systems, along with the leaps and bounds being made in robotics plus preparations to move into the next generation of Big Data crunching systems means a sort of singularity is approaching in technology and mankind's use of it.

We've come a long way from using a stick to balance ourselves as we cross a fast stream. And of course our cousins the apes are at that the stage, famously.

Some of the world's wealthiest billionaires are chasing the technological rainbow for various reasons of their own. Some are aware that cornering a little bit of the technology behind the coming singularity is likely to guarantee great wealth for decades to come. Others are chasing down immortality given the application of big data crunching on the ability to be able to programme the human body to close down cells and encourage others in an effort to stave off illness and perhaps even death.

That ultimate naturalist socialist, death, is likely to be challenged in the foreseeable future by the extremely wealthy in an effort to bring into being a form of wealth-based inequality where the wealthy will be able to prolong their lifespan over that available to those with less resources.

Google DeepMind, notable for defeating in recent years human 'Go!' champions in South Korea and Japan, is threatening the Turing test. Wealthy individuals such as Japan's wealthiest man Masoyoshi Son of Softbank major shareholding fame along with people like the Alibaba founder Jack Ma and his right-hand man and technology investor Joe Tsai are speaking of a singularity or convergence in the area of robotics, AI and Big Data that will amount to a great leap forward in the uses and application of technology and that it will be so profound as to amount to a 'singularity' in human terms.

I'd like to open a discussion on where we are in relation to the singularity- what are the fears and opportunities of these sciences which are so far ahead of any possible discussion in terms of regulation that they may as well be a foreign language to government?


Masoyoshi Son's thoughts on the singularity; SoftBank CEO Masayoshi Son thinks the 'singularity' will occur within 30 years - Business Insider



Google Deepmind trains Data centres to cut 40% of their power use. DeepMind: Google's AI saves the amount of electricity used in data centres | WIRED UK

Mustafa Suleyman, head of DeepMind Health: DeepMind cofounder Mustafa Suleyman: 'In many areas, capitalism is currently failing us' - Business Insider

Human neuroimaging as a 'Big Data' science. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3983169/
 


gleeful

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"The singularity" means a sudden accidental, rapid and near infinite growth in intelligence of our computer systems. The idea is the software starts yo reprogram and improve itself. Think of skynet in Terminator or the OS in the movie Her.

This scenario isnt possible. Computer power is tied to hardware power and cant change itself. If the singularity was possible then evolution and life would have done it first.
 

Mad as Fish

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I debated putting this opener in 'health and society' as the effects of the subject could be felt in there as much as in education and science.

Certainly the social effects of a coming convergence in understanding of technology and the use of it will have far-reaching applications for human health and will certainly raise questions more appropriate for a 'society' sub-forum.

Watching a few areas of development- such as Google DeepMind's engagement with various NHS trusts on crunching vast amounts of patient data, and their offer to have their AI algorithm engage with saving vast amounts of wasted power across electricity supply systems, along with the leaps and bounds being made in robotics plus preparations to move into the next generation of Big Data crunching systems means a sort of singularity is approaching in technology and mankind's use of it.

We've come a long way from using a stick to balance ourselves as we cross a fast stream. And of course our cousins the apes are at that the stage, famously.

Some of the world's wealthiest billionaires are chasing the technological rainbow for various reasons of their own. Some are aware that cornering a little bit of the technology behind the coming singularity is likely to guarantee great wealth for decades to come. Others are chasing down immortality given the application of big data crunching on the ability to be able to programme the human body to close down cells and encourage others in an effort to stave off illness and perhaps even death.

That ultimate naturalist socialist, death, is likely to be challenged in the foreseeable future by the extremely wealthy in an effort to bring into being a form of wealth-based inequality where the wealthy will be able to prolong their lifespan over that available to those with less resources.

Google DeepMind, notable for defeating in recent years human 'Go!' champions in South Korea and Japan, is threatening the Turing test. Wealthy individuals such as Japan's wealthiest man Masoyoshi Son of Softbank major shareholding fame along with people like the Alibaba founder Jack Ma and his right-hand man and technology investor Joe Tsai are speaking of a singularity or convergence in the area of robotics, AI and Big Data that will amount to a great leap forward in the uses and application of technology and that it will be so profound as to amount to a 'singularity' in human terms.

I'd like to open a discussion on where we are in relation to the singularity- what are the fears and opportunities of these sciences which are so far ahead of any possible discussion in terms of regulation that they may as well be a foreign language to government?


Masoyoshi Son's thoughts on the singularity; SoftBank CEO Masayoshi Son thinks the 'singularity' will occur within 30 years - Business Insider



Google Deepmind trains Data centres to cut 40% of their power use. DeepMind: Google's AI saves the amount of electricity used in data centres | WIRED UK

Mustafa Suleyman, head of DeepMind Health: DeepMind cofounder Mustafa Suleyman: 'In many areas, capitalism is currently failing us' - Business Insider

Human neuroimaging as a 'Big Data' science. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3983169/
To say you took the words out of my mouth would be quite wrong as I would not have expressed the sentiments anywhere as elegantly that you do, but my thoughts are very much on a par and I think this a tremendously large and vitally important topic that needs opening up to scrutiny and discussion.

I am often accused of being a Luddite on here because of my apparent objection to technology. However, I have no objection per se to technology and the advancement of science itself, only that it is rushing ahead without any consultation or thought as to its general effects upon society and even humanity as a whole. The Public Services Card and Autonomous vehicles are two cases in point and I have outlined my objections below.

These are two prime examples of where technology is being used against the public interest although the opposite is argued by those who seek to make money out of them. As for the postponement of death then it will not be the prolonging of youth that will be achieved but the extension of the senescence that we associate with old age, and that has the potential to wreak havoc with what we consider the normal mores of society.

Is there an answer to this? I think so, but it will take a reversion back to the ethics of what it means to be a free individual within a society, a view we seem to have forgotten about over the years as the mad and barely regulated blitz on our privacy has gained momentum. Despite my misgivings about the EU in general it must be noted that they appear to be making some sort of attempt to rein in the wild west data rush that is happening, but I am not at all sure it goes far enough.

Obviously we cannot legislate for each new development, but we can legislate for the protection and preservation of privacy and free will, both of which are being far too rapidly eroded.



The case against the PSC database and AV's.

The PSC and its database are being installed in Ireland without any question as to its legality, ethics or morality being allowed, let alone encouraged. We are expected to turn our whole lives over to the state and commerce, be tracked and monitored, our thoughts captured by microphone (Siri is far more insidious than cameras) and our every move noted, and for what purpose exactly? Why should the state or commerce have the right to own so much information on us and what do they intend doing with it? To stop a few welfare cheats? Oh come on, that's total BS.

Autonomous cars are not just ordinary cars that drives themselves. Far from it, they are data collecting stations on wheels. Google was one of the pioneers pushing for them and now Facebook are rumoured to be working on a AV project as well. Why should these two tech companies whose business is collecting and monetising information on people suddenly develop an interest in personal transport? It really doesn't take that much working out. Throughout this sudden push for AV's it has been made quite clear that personal ownership of cars is to be discouraged, that way any data collected will belong to the company operating the cars, it will also deny us the use of of private transport at our convenience, instead we are to be become supplicants to others if we wish to travel by road, let alone air or sea. We are being sold AV's as a luxury taxi service, but it will be the likes of Ryanair who end up running them.
 
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Mad as Fish

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"The singularity" means a sudden accidental, rapid and near infinite growth in intelligence of our computer systems. The idea is the software starts yo reprogram and improve itself. Think of skynet in Terminator or the OS in the movie Her.

This scenario isnt possible. Computer power is tied to hardware power and cant change itself. If the singularity was possible then evolution and life would have done it first.
As I have pointed out before, FB turned off two AI programmes that appeared to be developing their own language between them and quantum computing is already with us.
 

Mad as Fish

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Maysoyoshi Son summed it up nicely in these few words -

"I truly believe it's coming, that's why I'm in a hurry – to aggregate the cash, to invest," said Son. "It will be so much more capable than us — what will be our job? What will be our life? We have to ask philosophical questions. Is it good or bad?"


Although what good money will be in a world run by self replicating robots is anybody's guess.
 

gleeful

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eoghanacht

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Mad as Fish

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The article notes that the researchers chose not to let the bots continue developing a private language in favor of programming them to stick to plain English, given that the whole point of the research is to improve AI-to-human communication.

As I said, they shut them down because they were developing their own method of communication, Fact Check appear to be erecting a straw man to knock down. Fake fact check would appear to be more correct.
 

gleeful

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What we have now are still little more than complex mindless programs following instructions but doing so really quickly and with access to huge volumes of data

True AI is many years away, if ever.

Corporate purloining of all our private data for commercial gain is however a sad reality already! :p
There wont be a moment when we say, yes - now we have AI. It will be many years of gradual improvement. Take the Turing test - taken literally, chatbots can now pass it, just.

The test requires that a human chatting via text over the internet might be reasonably unsure that they are talking to a bot or a human. That is certainly the case from time to time right now.
 

Kevin Parlon

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"The singularity" means a sudden accidental, rapid and near infinite growth in intelligence of our computer systems. The idea is the software starts yo reprogram and improve itself. Think of skynet in Terminator or the OS in the movie Her.

This scenario isnt possible. Computer power is tied to hardware power and cant change itself. If the singularity was possible then evolution and life would have done it first.
It's not only possible; it's inevitable.
 

Kevin Parlon

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AI is inevitable. The singularity isn't.
GAI = The Singularity. Our progress makes general artificial intelligence inevitable. General AI, by definition able to imrpove itself therefore makes the intelligence explosion also inevitable.
 

gleeful

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publicrealm

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I'm not a tecchie but I do think that machines will increasingly displace highly skilled workers and I'm not sure that we have actually debated or bought into this as a society.

I'm aware from my son of just such a development in Ireland - a major firm - very wealthy - in partnership with an AI outfit from the States has been trialling programs that will displace up to 40 very highly skilled individuals - albeit still requiring that some remain to spot check the work of the machines. This is in an area requiring high level analysis and deep background training and experience - not a bottling plant or easily mechanised assembly line.

It will save money for the company but will damage individuals. Maybe this is inevitable - a new industrial revolution - but as someone said above - our Government is probably not even aware of it.
 

Casablanca

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The only countries that seems to be planning for a post-work society are the Nordics:


Finland Trials Living Wage


Bloody Scandis again, with their functional health services and social contracts.
 
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I've been banging this drum for some time now. AI is a way away, but processing power can create a reasonable facsimile of it. Data mining has some benefits, but also some dangers in terms of social engineering.

The things is that people seem happy to yield their personal data at every turn. O good deal of the functionality on my smartphone doesn't work because I refuse to give it an e-mail address.Many appps require that I enable location etc in order to work. I'm not giving that data away.

You also have big data analytics. Take the example of a new company. They ask Microsoft for four licences for MS Office. Microsoft will sell them only if company stores its data on the cloud. They will over time aggregate your meta data with that of other companies in your own niche and sell this data to whoever can afford it - i.e.; well-funded competitors.
 
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Filibuster

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One of the biggest issues I'm seeing is bad / misinterpretation of data. It can be as useful as looking into the tealeaves if you don't know how to use it or if you use it inappropriately.

Having lots of data does not make bad managers competent.
 

Half Nelson

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Technology is not intelligence.
We have yet to see a computer with the intelligence of a gnat.

But the move towards the control of populations for the benefit of corporations is worrying. We already see the Irish state passing private details to businesses for profit, with not a word of protest.
 

silverharp

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The humans on 4 Chan are actually a pretty smart lot indeed

But they have a rather devilish sense of humour!

And they do NOT like Microsoft at all!! :p
The He will not divide us capture the flag was hilarious over the summer, don't rule out the power of weaponised Autism. I even saw something that one of their autism swarms located an ISIS training camp which the Russian did an airstrike on
 


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