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So Call Our New Prostitution Law?




McTell

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Oct 16, 2012
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No

1. So the unlucky punter was fined, with the real punishment in and between family and friends.

2. The lady involved was not trafficked from anywhere, was not prosecuted, and will carry on carrying on.

3. The gardi burst in on a consensual private meeting of 2 adults having sex indoors.


All in all, not a great vindication of the new act, and the reasons given for passing it. The gardi presumably had her phone number and online photos, and could have checked out if she had been trafficked at any time. What a waste of resources, and what a dent to everyone's privacy rights.
 

mr_anderson

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Thankfully the Gardai are well resourced with no deficiency in any of their other services.
 

McTell

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No
Thankfully the Gardai are well resourced with no deficiency in any of their other services.

Presumably in a few years time they will be bursting in on a family enjoying steaks for their dinner.
 

Leandrai

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1. So the unlucky punter was fined, with the real punishment in and between family and friends.

2. The lady involved was not trafficked from anywhere, was not prosecuted, and will carry on carrying on.

3. The gardi burst in on a consensual private meeting of 2 adults having sex indoors.


All in all, not a great vindication of the new act, and the reasons given for passing it. The gardi presumably had her phone number and online photos, and could have checked out if she had been trafficked at any time. What a waste of resources, and what a dent to everyone's privacy rights.
I know the ordinary Gardai, for the main part, see through Ruhama and this law as easily as I do (why not? Being able to work out lies and half truths is in the job description these days.) and I had really expected the first prosecution that would draw all the publicity and witchunting to be like the one in the north - a sleazebucket who needed prosecuted under any law you could get him on.

I was actually staggered that they picked on a harmless old man and his family, I cannot see any purpose to be served except to terrorise innocent, harmless people...
...and show Ruhama up for exactly what they are...
 

Leandrai

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A new problem is emerging after this case has been given such a high profile by Ruhama.

There is a sudden rash of violent, aggressive and abusive "Gardai" without ID, full uniforms or, I will warrant, the first clue how to find the jax in Templemore, bursting in on sex workers and/or clients, seizing money and generally having the time of their misbegotten little lives.

(Of course there are bad Gardai, who *would* do this, but they amount to only 2-5% of the force, maybe another 30% would be uncivil without breaking any laws - this is nowhere near enough to cover the extent of the problem).

Here is a horrible little truth about life - anything resembling a real gun can be sold for a small fortune in Dublin or Cork, because it looks like a weapon and can be used to extract money from innocent people - this vile and dangerous law turns the phrase "I am a Guard" into another weapon that has the power to do exactly the same thing, without costing a penny. The gleeful pillorying of an elderly man by Ruhama (that did, thankfully, fall a bit flat in case you didn't notice) just reinforces that.

Doing some careful thinking here so bear with me An Garda Siochana were created to be a civil police force in 1921 before the dust and bitterness of the rebellion had even settled properly. Contrary to some unkind rumours I was not around and taking notes in 1921 but I recently watched a similar project in another country try to happen, and I am sure the logistics were very similar. The emphasis was all about "We are part of you" and "We are here to serve you", and the 98% who were NOT bad cops meant it from their hearts.

When you create law that turns the concept of a civil police force into a weapon that can be used to terrorise and abuse people who are not hurting anyone you destroy an important little part of society. The 1993 sexual offences act did that (law prior to that was a legacy of the British), but only to street sex workers, and rotten and wrong as it is to feel that way, most of the indoors sex workers and clients routinely dehumanise them, never mind the rest of society. Even more importantly street sex workers soon come to know who the real Gardai are in their limited district and would not be very vulnerable to any attempt at impersonation as a result.

So now we have a law, evidenced by blatant lies that no one was allowed to challenge at any point, ushered through the Dail without a casual glance to appease a powerful and unscrupulous women's lobby (because it was only going to adversely effect a few hundred people who had a vote in the state, so what harm?) that endangers women who are disproportionately likely to be in crisis and vulnerable already while making a serious assault in their earnings capacity, leaving them with no recourse but a hostile, ideologically opposed, morally bankrupt, abusive travesty of an NGO that nobody in their right minds will go near.

...and that law makes a weapon of the Garda Siochana to be used against innocent people...

Of course feminists would argue that sex work clients are not innocent and sex workers are chopped liver that doesn't need an income anyway...

But

True story I was told for another reason. Apparently there used be at least one woman in the red light ditricts who would jump into cars with male drivers at traffic lights and refuse to get out until she was paid...

How long before the gurriers of this world adapt *THAT* strategy to take fullest financial advantage of "The Nordic Model"?
 

Johnny Zordan

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Sorry if this has already been answered- How was yer man caught buying sex ? Was it an undercover ban Garda ?
 

Dame_Enda

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Leandrai when you say AGS is taking their cash, do you mean the confiscations allowed under the existing law, or are you talking about blackmail?
 

General Urko

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Sorry if this has already been answered- How was yer man caught buying sex ? Was it an undercover ban Garda ?
AFAIK the unfortunate senior citizen was caught up in a brothel raid, with no consequence for any other party involved! If this was the case, it was done to appease TORLERs! It could well be a PR nightmare for such groups! The day of their greatest victory may become the day of their greatest defeat! Gloating over the public humiliation of a harmless 65 year old man, probably the sort of punter, the girls like to see the most!
 

Leandrai

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Leandrai when you say AGS is taking their cash, do you mean the confiscations allowed under the existing law, or are you talking about blackmail?
I am talking about people who *CLAIM* to be AGS "confiscating" cash - and I have an idea that is only allowed under the law:
  1. If they give a receipt
  2. If they are real guards

But with the pillorying terror tactics used by Ruhama in the press there is very little to stop anyone claiming to be a Guard and terrorising sex workers or clients into handing over money...the anti client hate campaign is a gift to gurriers.

Incidentally, not sure how many people realise this but the only Gardai available to deal with sex worker's problems are the same squad that raid and arrest them.

Let that sink in.

So, imagine you have just been raided by 2 men and a women who claim to be guards and seem pretty convincing despite never actually showing clear ID and have seized €136,5 the macbook you got for Christmas, the gold pendant your Mam and Dad gave you for your 21st and that funny old ring with the big white stone your Gran left you and an Iphone 5 that (thank heavens) you use for travelling to avoid light fingers in transit...

Are you, seriously, going to be able to make yourself go down to the nearest pub (phone is gone, remember) and call the Gardai knowing it will be passed straight to the same guards who's job it is to raid you and arrest your clients?

I don't think so.
 
Last edited:

Leandrai

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AFAIK the unfortunate senior citizen was caught up in a brothel raid, with no consequence for any other party involved! If this was the case, it was done to appease TORLERs! It could well be a PR nightmare for such groups! The day of their greatest victory may become the day of their greatest defeat! Gloating over the public humiliation of a harmless 65 year old man, probably the sort of punter, the girls like to see the most!
I do see a lack of enthusiasm for the gloating campaign...the Journal pointedly didn't report it and Ruhama's twitter feed is currently 50 shades of random defensive.
 

Zach Dingle

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Also Laura Lee did point out back in the day that the gardaI in the Republic were acting the bollex rightly in terms of abusing sex workers up to and including physical assaults and freebees and possibly sexual assault as well and she did say The PSNI were not at that!
 

toughbutfair

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The legal system and that newspaper have just ruined the life of man in his sixties. How is a man of that age supposed to get a young woman to have sex with him? Hopefully he continues, in for a penny in for a pound.
 

Lumpy Talbot

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No
Well he may as well continue now that his personal life has been made public. To be honest I'd contribute to a crowd-funding effort to pay for his next episode of horizontal yoga.
 

toughbutfair

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So you’re 65 and you want sex with a beautiful 21 year old, now what do you? It’s ridiculous forcing men to fly to Amsterdam to let off a bit of steam. What happens the ugly men ? They can never have sex with a beautiful woman?

This is terrible for the mental health of men. Men need sex and this law will increase suicide rates.
 

Lumpy Talbot

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No
Given the subject matter and the eternal nonsense of any state thinking it can legislate prostitution away despite thousands of years of informative failure of the concept, I doubt our current laws will do anything except what they are calculated to do- basically continue the moralising line promoted by Ruhama, a bunch of superannuated nuns by philosophy as well all know.

Best possible thing to do is continue to ignore the law. As for myself if I am so moved to go to a prostitute and am threatened with social opprobrium by being named I shall simply say 'go right ahead'.

After that everyone would know I am in the habit of going to prostitutes so that would be a relief in itself. And then the threat of stigmatisation fails from there on.
 

JimmyFoley

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Sep 28, 2016
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Given the subject matter and the eternal nonsense of any state thinking it can legislate prostitution away ....
One of the sex workers spokesmen made a good point the other day: *every* man she knows who pays for sex *already* believed it was illegal to do so!
 

General Urko

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Oct 24, 2012
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Well he may as well continue now that his personal life has been made public. To be honest I'd contribute to a crowd-funding effort to pay for his next episode of horizontal yoga.
Wouldn't it be nice to do a go fund me crowd source for him on the net!:giggle:
 

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