So Call Our New Prostitution Law?



Dame_Enda

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I would point out that there was practically no debate on this law by the Establishment Irish media. There is still relative silence on this case in those publications except some references to it in the Irish Examiner. Only the Irish edition of the Times (UK) has given both sides, just as that newspaper was one of the few to cover the Siteserv story at a time when others dared not. Its a sad situation that the Times (UK) will be closing soon because only foreign owned publications are prepared to question the agenda of FF and FG and break cultural taboos. Irish society continues to have some in our society in powerful places that want to control women's bodies as the RCC did with the Magdalene launderies. The Sexual Offences Act 2017 effectively turned the Irish prison system into a Magdalene laundery for sex workers.
 

Apple in Eden

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Labour TD Jan O'Sullivan arguing that two sex workers living together indoors should be protected after the upcoming review of the law.

I recall that Labour supporting the current absurd and unworkable law when it was going through.
One of the big constitutional issues raised by the legislation is the proposition that a service that is legal to supply cannot at the same time be illegal to demand. Now it is assumed that clients visiting escorts working on their own(legal but potentially unsafe) may not face prosecution. Clients who visit brothels on the other hand (which are illegal) will be prosecuted because supply and demand are both illegal. While this is somewhat abstract and confusing it does explain why it was necessary for legal reasons to keep alive penalties for sex workers working together on the statute book.
In practice this means that if you have paid for sex with a person who operates on their own the Cops cannot bust in during the episode or cannot engage in activities which restrict a person pursuing lawful activities. Basically you would have to turn yourself in and confess.
A place were two people work providing services of a sexual nature, is because of its illegal nature subject to raids and detailed monitoring by the police and people can be stopped and questioned in relation to any interaction with the premises. This means the cops can build a case on the basis of literally catching you with your pants down or perhaps by just presenting evidence that you visited a premises which is normally used for the illegal sale of sexual services.

To cut a long story short it may be the case that under Irish constitutional law it is not practical to have a ban on the purchase of sex unless the sale of sex is also against the law. You can't have one without the other.
 

Apple in Eden

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I would point out that there was practically no debate on this law by the Establishment Irish media. There is still relative silence on this case in those publications except some references to it in the Irish Examiner. Only the Irish edition of the Times (UK) has given both sides, just as that newspaper was one of the few to cover the Siteserv story at a time when others dared not. Its a sad situation that the Times (UK) will be closing soon because only foreign owned publications are prepared to question the agenda of FF and FG and break cultural taboos. Irish society continues to have some in our society in powerful places that want to control women's bodies as the RCC did with the Magdalene launderies. The Sexual Offences Act 2017 effectively turned the Irish prison system into a Magdalene laundery for sex workers.
Not convinced that the law is primarily a sop to social conservatives. More precisely it is a combination of such types with so called liberal feminists who logically belong elsewhere on the political spectrum. Hence strong support from SF and Labour as exemplified best by the Batty Chick.
 

Leandrai

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Not convinced that the law is primarily a sop to social conservatives. More precisely it is a combination of such types with so called liberal feminists who logically belong elsewhere on the political spectrum. Hence strong support from SF and Labour as exemplified best by the Batty Chick.
The common ground is that the two categories, between them, absorb a very similar cultural group to the religious orders in the past. Who were brimful bastions of religious fanatics and variously unmarriageable women rather than sincere vocations.
 
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Dame_Enda

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Eoin O'Malley in The Times (Ireland) says the jailing of the 2 women shows the Nordic Model doesn't work, and calls it a "moralising matriarchy".
 

Leandrai

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Eoin O'Malley in The Times (Ireland) says the jailing of the 2 women shows the Nordic Model doesn't work, and calls it a "moralising matriarchy".
I favour the expression "spoilt, profiteering little mares" myself over "moralising matriarchy" -but I am with him the rest of the way...(who locked the appalling, hardcore TORLEK John Mooney in a closet at "The Times" - I owe that man a drink.)
 
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Dame_Enda

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NE Herts Labour Women (UK) have passed resolution in favour of decriminalisation.

Given we are so influenced by policies of our neighbour hopefully this will contribute to a change here.
 

Dame_Enda

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The EU should look into whether the Swedish model violates the Single Market, by restricting interstate trade in a service.
 

Leandrai

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The EU should look into whether the Swedish model violates the Single Market, by restricting interstate trade in a service.
You realise the vultures fight so hard against the term "sex work" because if it were ever enshrined in legislation it would open the way to a constitutional challenge?
 

Dame_Enda

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You realise the vultures fight so hard against the term "sex work" because if it were ever enshrined in legislation it would open the way to a constitutional challenge?
Yes.
 

Dame_Enda

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Unlike Irish feminists, Romanian feminists are supporting a new sex workers rights group in Romania. There's nothing pro-woman about the government locking them up like in the Magdalene launderies.
 

Dame_Enda

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New Garda raids this time on house in Kildare. 2 foreign nationals arrested. Looks to me like it could be another example of how the law criminalises sex workers who work in groups indoors. If that is what is happening again (and we don't know but its becoming a pattern after the recent case of the woman jailed for 9 months), then its the opposite to what Ruhama claimed to be looking for as 'criminalising the clients not the women'.
 

Leandrai

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New Garda raids this time on house in Kildare. 2 foreign nationals arrested. Looks to me like it could be another example of how the law criminalises sex workers who work in groups indoors. If that is what is happening again (and we don't know but its becoming a pattern after the recent case of the woman jailed for 9 months), then its the opposite to what Ruhama claimed to be looking for as 'criminalising the clients not the women'.
Just around the corner from the other place last year. I reckon someone with rank has delusions of "Witchfinder General" going on there.
 

Apple in Eden

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New Garda raids this time on house in Kildare. 2 foreign nationals arrested. Looks to me like it could be another example of how the law criminalises sex workers who work in groups indoors. If that is what is happening again (and we don't know but its becoming a pattern after the recent case of the woman jailed for 9 months), then its the opposite to what Ruhama claimed to be looking for as 'criminalising the clients not the women'.
I have pointed out many times that it is difficult to prosecute the purchaser outside the context of an operating brothel which is also illegal. In this respect sex workers who work in groups indoors are always likely to be targeted. Why some people are only coping on to this reality now is beyond me.
 

Dame_Enda

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McTell

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No
So the lady in the "dwelling" wasn't complaining about being trafficked?

And was being visited by "respectable" men. And they were listening to beethoven or doing whatever in private, as in we are all entitled to privacy.

No complaints from the neighbours?

A victimless crime ...
 


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