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So Renua Is Finished Then....

ruman

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Feb 24, 2015
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3,076
Still a market for someone to represent us adults who dont want the state in either their bedroom or their wallets.

Those who wish for the state to make all their decisions for them are well represented by FFGLab and the tax obsessed greens.
 


Paddyc

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Jan 30, 2009
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Is if fair to say that, adding together Aontu, Renua, National Party, Irish Freedom Party, Direct Democracy Ireland and Gemma O'D, it doesn't amount to a hill of beans. Much messianic ranting online, with no real-world impact at all.

Peter Casey is about the most successful on that broad side of the equation. But even he just manages a respectable showing, not an actual result.

So, yeah, if folk actually want to have a meaningful political movement, they'd want to start distinguishing between delusion and reality.

If they did, would there actually be a platform left?
We haven’t seen Casey run in a GE yet.
 

Splodge

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Apr 24, 2019
Messages
259
Still a market for someone to represent us adults who dont want the state in either their bedroom or their wallets.

Those who wish for the state to make all their decisions for them are well represented by FFGLab and the tax obsessed greens.
The state is finally getting out of our bedrooms. Renua and their ilk want them back in there.
 

ruman

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Feb 24, 2015
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The state is finally getting out of our bedrooms. Renua and their ilk want them back in there.
Renua are finished and there's no " ilk" or at least none with any support thankfully.
Unfortunately the state remains with its hand deep in our pockets. We need a party to remove it the same way we removed it from our bedrooms.
 

Myler

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May 30, 2019
Messages
22
Renua are finished and there's no " ilk" or at least none with any support thankfully.
Unfortunately the state remains with its hand deep in our pockets. We need a party to remove it the same way we removed it from our bedrooms.
Can you identify a coherent support base for such a party? Who would it be taking support from?

For the sake of argument, if you see rural Ireland as the potential support base, what appeal could a party make that would unseat Michael Fitzmaurice, Mattie McGrath, Peadar Tobin and the Healy-Raes? Or would you feel the PBP/hard left seats are the ones to target?

No point in is being a Gemma O'D, ranting online about whatever and convincing ourselves we've seen the path the national needs to take, when the nation doesn't give a toss. Like, Ruth Coppinger actually has a seat, which is more than Herman Kelly can say, or is ever likely to be able to say.
 

onlyonpaper

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Apr 4, 2008
Messages
62
I think we would be foolish to write off Social Conservatism in Ireland. It may have declined but is still quite strong. Remember almost 740,000 people voted No to same sex marriage and to liberalising Abortion over the past 4-5 years.

It is also safe to say that these people will vote in every election whereas a fair chuck of the Yes vote particularly the young will only get motivated by the social issues and wont bother with the mundane world of Local elections etc.

FFFGLAB try to have a broad range of opinions/policies which will appeal to as much of electorate as possible but that leaves them open to criticism as standing for nothing. However the parties with a "hardline" Left or Right philosophy remain as peripheral in the overall parliamentary make up. Sinn Fein came on the scene in the Republic as a committed left wing party with backing for social issues and opposition to water charges etc.

It is now attempting to appeal to the middle class under MLM and got a bloody nose in recent elections. It will be interesting to see where the pitch their tent for the General Election.
 

Paddyc

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Can you identify a coherent support base for such a party? Who would it be taking support from?

For the sake of argument, if you see rural Ireland as the potential support base, what appeal could a party make that would unseat Michael Fitzmaurice, Mattie McGrath, Peadar Tobin and the Healy-Raes? Or would you feel the PBP/hard left seats are the ones to target?

No point in is being a Gemma O'D, ranting online about whatever and convincing ourselves we've seen the path the national needs to take, when the nation doesn't give a toss. Like, Ruth Coppinger actually has a seat, which is more than Herman Kelly can say, or is ever likely to be able to say.
The only party that existed along those lines is the PDs and they’re gone.

If the State didn’t have its hand deep in your pockets, it couldn’t afford the clientilism that the people who vote for Michael Fitzmaurice, Mattie McGrath, Peadar Tobin and the Healy-Raes expect from ‘their’ politicians.

If you feel the PBP/hard left voting base are going to vote for a tax cutting party then you really haven’t been paying attention to the Irish Water fiasco at all.
 

ruman

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Feb 24, 2015
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You
Can you identify a coherent support base for such a party? Who would it be taking support from?

For the sake of argument, if you see rural Ireland as the potential support base, what appeal could a party make that would unseat Michael Fitzmaurice, Mattie McGrath, Peadar Tobin and the Healy-Raes? Or would you feel the PBP/hard left seats are the ones to target?

No point in is being a Gemma O'D, ranting online about whatever and convincing ourselves we've seen the path the national needs to take, when the nation doesn't give a toss. Like, Ruth Coppinger actually has a seat, which is more than Herman Kelly can say, or is ever likely to be able to say.
You seem to be misunderstanding me or maybe i have explained poorly. It would be well educated urban professionals mostly. Those who have worked abroad and see the extremely poor standard of Irish public services. Naturally they will favour lower taxation and reduced incompetent state involvement they will of course be socially liberal and also want no state interferencd in their bedrooms.
 

Myler

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If you feel the PBP/hard left voting base are going to vote for a tax cutting party then you really haven’t been paying attention to the Irish Water fiasco at all.
Indeed, I absolutely don't.

I don't see a coherent social grouping with a common agenda that isn't already catered for.
It would be well educated urban professionals mostly. Those who have worked abroad and see the extremely poor standard of Irish public services. Naturally they will favour lower taxation and reduced incompetent state involvement they will of course be socially liberal and also want no state interferencd in their bedrooms.
So pretty much the same constituency Fine Gael hoovers up in Dublin.

Which doesn't care much about public services, so long as private health insurance is reasonably affordable and State subsidies for private schools continue. And is hostile to proposals to improve public transport.

I'd say any ideological party in Dublin would struggle to get even get Maria Bailey's seat.

I'd suggest you also need to reflect a little on what "urban professionals" means in an Irish context. A lot of them are public servants (including those working in the overwhelmingly tax-funded "voluntary" sector), folk working in the FDI sector (similarly dependent on the benign treatment they currently get from gubbermint).

Moving beyond that, you'll find things like healthcare professionals working in private hospitals, depending on a State-owned private health insurance company (backed by a heavily regulated market risk equalisation scheme) for the bulk of their income.
 

Degeneration X

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he specifically says he left Renua in order to join the council control group... unless others in Renua would object to him joining a controlling group with FF????
I don't see why they'd object. Leahy admits he failed as a leader, knows Renua is an albatross around his neck and wants to return to being an independent for electoral reasons.
 

Edo

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May 12, 2007
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They don't really - Renua initially had a lot of pro-choice candidates before Creighton flounced after she got a beating at the ballot box. Leahy's attempt to make them out as a pro-life party was pure electioneering that has led to no increase in support for them.
In Fairness as an ex Renua member (left in spring 2017 after they made being anti-abortion a non negotiable condition of being a member) - " a lot" would be pushing it - maybe 30% of the candidates would have been vaguely pro-choice - however 99% of the membership was militantly anti-abortion - I only see this now in hindsight........

I was at the now notorious meeting in the Killeshin Hotel in PortLaoise after the GE in 2016 when the die was cast - Any thought of becoming the new Progress Liberal democrats went out the window over the last year after the election when all the cracked auld ones, their carers the religious freaks and other assorted incel losers had a complete sh^t fit anytime anybody mentioned the word "Progressive", "Liberal" or "Democrat".............thats why Lucinda, Eddie and all the rest not only stood down, but cut all ties with the Party within months of that meeting...............there are no ex-fine gaelers left in Renua, with the possible exception of Michael O'Dowd , for whom the Pro-life thing was everything and Paddy Manning- who is mad as box of frogs and is quite liable to tell them all to go f^k themselves and walk out at the next AGM (he's probably gone already) ...............

God knows what they do now - but you can be guaranteed that the last person they will listen to will be anyway sane...............

John Leahy is an ambitious man - he has realised that its not going to happen with a party that want to put themselves and the country into a time machine and move back to a celtic version of 1950's Franco's Spain - he also knows that being an independent is not going to advance him far in the long term - he is a on a promise from Fianna Fail..........after a suitable period of decontamination after Renua .....

Well they have 65K to spare now - the lunatics are well and truly in charge of the asylum- TBH the most useful thing they really could do now is go on one unmerciful drinking session to use up the cash and go their seperate ways - a bit of a wake really!

the are no votes in the abortion debate in the near to mid term future - none - Leahy got elected comfortably cos he's a good local councillor and head neck and heels steeped in the GAA..................thats why FF are after him - nothing to do with Renua which probably cost him some votes
 

Baron von Biffo

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May 16, 2007
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Aontu have Toibin, Renua had Leahy - a world of difference. Renua was toast when Creighton flounced.
Renua was toast when Creighton flounced from FG.

She's a classic example of the perils of believing your own publicity. As a young, blonde, pleasant looking, female TD who represented a Dublin constituency she was loved by the media.

After years of uncritical media coverage she seems to have convinced herself that she was a politician of substance and that being junior minister for EU affairs involved more than behaving properly at receptions and not saying 'sieg heil' to the Germans.

All was going along merrily. All she had to do was sit there and wait, turn up for Dail votes and give the odd interview about how hard it was for a woman to succeed in politics. She would certainly have had one of the GQ cabinet seats in this Dail.

But then she chose make a stand on the one issue that she couldn't win but which was guaranteed to alienate all her media supporters.

Even then she had a choice. She could have taken her medicine, served out her suspension from the party whip and returned in due course. Her party colleagues would have understood and the media would have forgiven her. If anything she'd have got martyr points for losing her junior ministry on a point of principle.

Instead she decided to take it personally. Toys were hurled from the pram and a mega tantrum ensued. Then she decided to set up her own party. The PDs would surely have been on her mind as she did so. Their ability to turn a handful of seats into a controlling stake in government and the position of Tanaiste for their leader must have looked very appealing.

She forgot two things. Firstly O'Malley wasn't the beneficiary of quotas. He had had to earn his place at the cabinet table through skill and political nous. And secondly, in opposing Haughey he was doing something that the media fully supported.

By contrast, Creighton never had to develop the skills to fight her way to the top and she was fighting against the media in making abortion her major policy interest.

If further proof of her poor political judgement were needed she allowed two amateurs, Drennan and Hobbs, to have a huge, and very public, role in the development of the party.

The result was inevitable. Captain Creighton sailed her ship onto the rocks where it sank with all hands.

The world has known greater tragedies.
 

Clanrickard

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ruman

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Indeed, I absolutely don't.

I don't see a coherent social grouping with a common agenda that isn't already catered for.So pretty much the same constituency Fine Gael hoovers up in Dublin.

Which doesn't care much about public services, so long as private health insurance is reasonably affordable and State subsidies for private schools continue. And is hostile to proposals to improve public transport.

I'd say any ideological party in Dublin would struggle to get even get Maria Bailey's seat.

I'd suggest you also need to reflect a little on what "urban professionals" means in an Irish context. A lot of them are public servants (including those working in the overwhelmingly tax-funded "voluntary" sector), folk working in the FDI sector (similarly dependent on the benign treatment they currently get from gubbermint).

Moving beyond that, you'll find things like healthcare professionals working in private hospitals, depending on a State-owned private health insurance company (backed by a heavily regulated market risk equalisation scheme) for the bulk of their income.
FG are the party of big farmers and the protected professions. They are not the constituency i refer to.
 

lostexpectation

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I don't see why they'd object. Leahy admits he failed as a leader, knows Renua is an albatross around his neck and wants to return to being an independent for electoral reasons.
well people are suggesting he might join FF
 

Paddyc

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Indeed, I absolutely don't.

I don't see a coherent social grouping with a common agenda that isn't already catered for.So pretty much the same constituency Fine Gael hoovers up in Dublin.

Which doesn't care much about public services, so long as private health insurance is reasonably affordable and State subsidies for private schools continue. And is hostile to proposals to improve public transport.

I'd say any ideological party in Dublin would struggle to get even get Maria Bailey's seat.

I'd suggest you also need to reflect a little on what "urban professionals" means in an Irish context. A lot of them are public servants (including those working in the overwhelmingly tax-funded "voluntary" sector), folk working in the FDI sector (similarly dependent on the benign treatment they currently get from gubbermint).

Moving beyond that, you'll find things like healthcare professionals working in private hospitals, depending on a State-owned private health insurance company (backed by a heavily regulated market risk equalisation scheme) for the bulk of their income.
I would agree with a lot of that. The so-called 'moral' issues have all been settled and aren't coming back onto anyone's political radar. The government isn't looking into anyone's bedroom.

Any former PD looking to set up a new party on PD lines would be laughed out of it, given the PDs contribution to the financial crisis and any well educated urban professional got (almost) free third level education, is probably claiming children's allowance and sending or intending to send their child to (almost) free third level.

They're going to want things to keep going the way the are and don't want anyone rocking the boat.
 

Myler

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FG are the party of big farmers and the protected professions. They are not the constituency i refer to.
Who does the constituency you speak of vote for?

And who are they? Are they healthcare professionals, educators and FDI employees? Or what?
 


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