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So where next?

ArtyisBack

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The problem for unionism is that even if an UI does not materialise within the next number of years the days of croppy lie down are over. People will expect to see their Irishness represented in the public square and will vote for it. If unionists do not like it then they can thole it.

It is the way it is.
 


DavidCaldwell

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What do you mean by 'united' though? Take a look at Belfast over the past couple of weeks and unity seems further away than ever. I'm not sure whether simply moving a red line on a map will change anything.




David Caldwell,

I'd be inclined to agree. But how do you move from theory to practice? For example, I genuinely believe that flying the union flag on designated days is the most appropriate solution to the cultural impasse at Belfast City Hall. Obviously, unionists don't see it that way and feel as though it's an attack on them rather an attempt at inclusivity.

If nationalists really believe in designated days, which is a perfectly legitimate position, then perhaps putting their money where their mouth is might be the way to go? Why not allow the union flag to fly over nationalist dominated councils a few days each year- not because they themselves feel British, but because the unionists do. Such a move would salve tempers, wrong-foot the extremists, and vindicate the decent people on the other side who currently find themselves marginalised, ie, Basil McCrea.
To me, the "designated days" compromise is very reasonable. It is unfortunate that the Unionist politicians did not see it that way.

Where is there consensus? Perhaps in the idea that there should be more joint activities between schools from the different sides of the community. We can start small.
 

factual

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In fairness, I think that people are already reaching out themselves, and in that sense the general population are already lightyears ahead of their politicians. With honourable exception.
That is true. The people are on the whole doing a bit of a "melting pot" project but how does this tally with the presence of peace walls?

It seems that there is a social element to this. Those who are socially deprived are not moving on from "them and us" while those who are doing well are increasinly doing so.
 

RedCloud

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RedCloud

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That would be logical and an advisable course of action if we lived in a calculating, non-emotional world.
As it is, the Union flag symbolizes Nationalists' status as a conquered people. That is why it will never be flown on Nationalist councils; and why people in the Republic eschew it whenever possible and replace it with English, Scottish and Welsh flags.
Whilst pocketing British cash ? How noble of them :)
 

RedCloud

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To me, the "designated days" compromise is very reasonable. It is unfortunate that the Unionist politicians did not see it that way.

Where is there consensus? Perhaps in the idea that there should be more joint activities between schools from the different sides of the community. We can start small.
How about do away with different schools altogether ? :)
 

belfast1981

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Where next in the immediate term is really should be trying to repair bridges burnt by thugs in the recent riots. Parties need to get together and come up with a way forward, right now they are seemingly further apart than ever. People need to realize that these rioters don't represent normal unionists and they do not speak for us, nor do we want their actions judging us as a whole.

The next step should be both sides should work for both sides, not just their own.

Nationalist parties will only look out for nationalists, Unionist parties for Unionists. We are still divided by labels, instead of only representing or helping your own, start trying to represent all in the community. Not just your own, sadly we have too many in office who see the other side as unimportant to them.

As many of you know, I am unionist, I support and will more than likely vote in any border poll to remain part of the UK. But in saying that, it is SinnFien/SDLP's job to persuade me otherwise. And I would be willing to listen, I am willing to sit down and ask them questions about any future United Ireland and where I would stand, as a Unionist in a UI. A UI will come up time and again and it is a step we will all have to discuss in the future.

Building trust on all sides should be the next 'Big' step and putting the past behind us completely. But there are plenty of little steps in between.
 

ArtyisBack

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Where next in the immediate term is really should be trying to repair bridges burnt by thugs in the recent riots. Parties need to get together and come up with a way forward, right now they are seemingly further apart than ever. People need to realize that these rioters don't represent normal unionists and they do not speak for us, nor do we want their actions judging us as a whole.

The next step should be both sides should work for both sides, not just their own.

Nationalist parties will only look out for nationalists, Unionist parties for Unionists. We are still divided by labels, instead of only representing or helping your own, start trying to represent all in the community. Not just your own, sadly we have too many in office who see the other side as unimportant to them.

As many of you know, I am unionist, I support and will more than likely vote in any border poll to remain part of the UK. But in saying that, it is SinnFien/SDLP's job to persuade me otherwise. And I would be willing to listen, I am willing to sit down and ask them questions about any future United Ireland and where I would stand, as a Unionist in a UI. A UI will come up time and again and it is a step we will all have to discuss in the future.

Building trust on all sides should be the next 'Big' step and putting the past behind us completely. But there are plenty of little steps in between.
And the nationalists have not done this. They have never calmly set out the arguments for a united Ireland for unionists to analyse. And if I was a unionists I would believe that the reason why is because they either do not believe it themselves and all is posturing or they have not got a clue what they are talking about. I support the call for he border poll for precisely that reason, it will make all parties lay out their positions and there visions for Ireland for the next century or so. I do not believe the unionists have any vision except more of the same. I believe their position is weak. I believe that the Irish position is stronger.


I have however no great trust in the ability of the SDLP or SF to articulate this. They are all caught up with being nice and outreach. Puke Politics.
 

DavidCaldwell

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How about do away with different schools altogether ? :)
I agree with you that this would be a good idea. But many people are currently against it - because, for example, they believe that the intention is to harm the education received by Catholics. It may be a better idea to find out what can be agreed on - such as joint activities - and implement that. Then, with everyone informed by the (hopefully positive) results of the first steps, it may be easier to implement further steps - such as merging some schools.
 

RedCloud

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And the nationalists have not done this. They have never calmly set out the arguments for a united Ireland for unionists to analyse. And if I was a unionists I would believe that the reason why is because they either do not believe it themselves and all is posturing or they have not got a clue what they are talking about. I support the call for he border poll for precisely that reason, it will make all parties lay out their positions and there visions for Ireland for the next century or so. I do not believe the unionists have any vision except more of the same. I believe their position is weak. I believe that the Irish position is stronger.


I have however no great trust in the ability of the SDLP or SF to articulate this. They are all caught up with being nice and outreach. Puke Politics.[/QUOTE

Set out your case please :)]
 

belfast1981

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Honestly Arty, since the GFA agreement I have not seen any real main attempt by SinnFien or SDLP to push even for a border poll let alone a UI. I know there was a proposal made and put forward in the 80s.. I can't for the life of me remember its name, sorry. But that was probably the last main stream push for it. In my adult life, I have not really heard much about a UI on a serious front from any nationalist party.

But even that is quite a few decades old now and hardly mentioned.
 

ArtyisBack

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Honestly Arty, since the GFA agreement I have not seen any real main attempt by SinnFien or SDLP to push even for a border poll let alone a UI. I know there was a proposal made and put forward in the 80s.. I can't for the life of me remember its name, sorry. But that was probably the last main stream push for it. In my adult life, I have not really heard much about a UI on a serious front from any nationalist party.

But even that is quite a few decades old now and hardly mentioned.
I agree - SF came out with a derisory seven point plan which was a joke. I do not believe that they have any serious strategy for a united Ireland bar getting in power in the south and then appointing people into joint roles thus uniting Ireland on that level. Pathetic really.
 

Dame_Enda

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Looks like the DUP may try to overturn this in the Assembly somehow.
 

RedCloud

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I agree with you that this would be a good idea. But many people are currently against it - because, for example, they believe that the intention is to harm the education received by Catholics. It may be a better idea to find out what can be agreed on - such as joint activities - and implement that. Then, with everyone informed by the (hopefully positive) results of the first steps, it may be easier to implement further steps - such as merging some schools.
Just take dopey religion out of schools David.
Simple as.
If you want to force your children to believe fairy tales, do so on your own time and at your own expense. :)
 

RedCloud

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Mickeymac

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Honestly Arty, since the GFA agreement I have not seen any real main attempt by SinnFien or SDLP to push even for a border poll let alone a UI. I know there was a proposal made and put forward in the 80s.. I can't for the life of me remember its name, sorry. But that was probably the last main stream push for it. In my adult life, I have not really heard much about a UI on a serious front from any nationalist party.

But even that is quite a few decades old now and hardly mentioned.


You forgot to mention a$$hole the thousands of Nationalists who are partaking in the flag protest.:lol::lol::lol:


You really are a laugh a sec pal.
 

DavidCaldwell

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@MickeyMac,

Belfast1981 made a post that seemed very reasonable to me and to ArtyIsBack. But you decide to insult him. Why? The main effect of doing so is that people think less of you and pay less attention to what you write. Is that really what you want?
 

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