Social Welfare benefits still higher than they were in 2007 !!

adrem

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OK - first off, I take the view that cutting any social welfare benefit that is being paid by virtue of disability (or caring for someone with disability) should be avoided. I also take the view that the current system is a complete mess and needs to be reformed.

That said - the first link is the current budget plan - go to page 34 for the relevant section

http://www.budget.gov.ie/budgets/2011/Documents/Part C - Annexes to SBM FINAL.pdf

The next link is the same section (its page 1 this time) from budget 2008.
http://www.budget.gov.ie/budgets/2008/Documents/AnnexC.pdf

Unless I'm misreading the documents, the new rates that will apply in 2011 are (in the main) higher than the rates that applied in 2007 which was pretty much the peak of the "boom" times. Up to that point they had been increased massively (in percentage terms) over the preceding 10 years. Inflation over the period Dec 2007 to Nov 2010 is down about 2%.

Why are we now saying that rates of benefit, which were welcomed when introduced in 2007, are now considered miserly, appalling and unconscionable??

Remember my first comment - I don't agree with cutting disability related SW benefits and I think an alternative could have been found - but that said is there a significant amount of hyperbole at play here?
 


collina

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Fully agree...
Its reassuring to know that 'The Poor Mouth' or 'An Beal Bocht', one of the most noble traditions of this great nation, is alive and well
An Béal Bocht - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Allied to to other great Irish tradition of knocking the ************************e out of each other. Can't we at least leave talk on Social Welfare till after Christmas?
 

shyster

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Are they as high when you compare them against the cost of living?
Because that's what you should compare them to, if you are saying they are generous.
The year on the calender means feck all to the person with the basket at the checkout in aldi.
 

juniordoctor

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Agreed

The moaning and whinging from the opposition regarding this issue is actually restoring my faith in Fianna Fail who are the only party willing to make the cuts we bloody well need - Fine Gael are pathetic and have lost my vote

I have heard that people on the dole are actually staying on it as it is a secure income - getting a job for a short duration could remove all entitlements for a year.
 

shyster

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[/QUOTE]I have heard that people on the dole are actually staying on it as it is a secure income - getting a job for a short duration could remove all entitlements for a year.[/QUOTE](this is a quote from JuniorDoctor above)

Should reform the system so, nobody should be punished for taking a few weeks work over Christmas, say. You can hardly expect people to leave themselves with NO income, no matter how idealogically sound or principled they are.
 
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darkhorse

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Those complaining or questioning welfare benifits should disclose their weekly income for all to see.

I don't expect to see any figures though.
And equally those defending them should disclose which benefits they or their family are on
Dont expect that either.
 

bonkers

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agree 100% maurice,they should try living on sw for a few months.the chances of any of them disclosing their income is zero.
 

adrem

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Those complaining or questioning welfare benifits should disclose their weekly income for all to see.

I don't expect to see any figures though.
I'm not complaining or questioning welfare benefits.

My point is simply that we massively increased welfare benefits up to 2007. A series of budgets that were welcomed at the time. The revised (post budget) benefits are (factually) higher than they were in 2007. Yet now we are being told that the cut being implemented is outrageous, unconsionable etc etc etc.
 

bonkers

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i have kidney failure and get 173 a week which will be cut to 165 a week.i have never been on sw in my life till i became ill almost 3 years ago.what do you earn mr. ff?
 

myksav

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OK - first off, I take the view that cutting any social welfare benefit that is being paid by virtue of disability (or caring for someone with disability) should be avoided. I also take the view that the current system is a complete mess and needs to be reformed.

That said - the first link is the current budget plan - go to page 34 for the relevant section

http://www.budget.gov.ie/budgets/2011/Documents/Part C - Annexes to SBM FINAL.pdf

The next link is the same section (its page 1 this time) from budget 2008.
http://www.budget.gov.ie/budgets/2008/Documents/AnnexC.pdf

Unless I'm misreading the documents, the new rates that will apply in 2011 are (in the main) higher than the rates that applied in 2007 which was pretty much the peak of the "boom" times. Up to that point they had been increased massively (in percentage terms) over the preceding 10 years. Inflation over the period Dec 2007 to Nov 2010 is down about 2%.

Why are we now saying that rates of benefit, which were welcomed when introduced in 2007, are now considered miserly, appalling and unconscionable??

Remember my first comment - I don't agree with cutting disability related SW benefits and I think an alternative could have been found - but that said is there a significant amount of hyperbole at play here?
As to your disagreeing with cutting the Blind, Disability and Carers, that's irrevelant as they are being cut on the basis that they are SW payments.
On the point of your post, the cost of living is still at 2010 rates, much higher than 2007 rates. And 2011 will be even higher again. Insurance has not dropped, it's gone up again, fuel costs are going up (that effects transport costs, increasing prices, it costs more to go to interviews, work if one can get it, etc). Food costs haven't dropped unless you live near a Tesco or the like and many don't. In those cases, the extra cost of fuel negates any savings possible. (given that this is about SW, those on SW cannot buy in bulk which would allow purchasing v transport costs to balance).

As for hyperbole, when an Irishman opens his mouth, that's hyperbole.


snip
I have heard that people on the dole are actually staying on it as it is a secure income - getting a job for a short duration could remove all entitlements for a year.
I have heard that people on the dole are actually looking for work as it gives them more money than the dole.

"getting a job for a short duration could remove all entitlements for a year"
Well, that's every seasonal worker off any SW.
Most who are on the dole and who can get a day or two work in any week, sign off for those days. It only drops their SW by the number of days worked unless the pay for those days exceeds a certain amount.
If your idea was applied, it would ramp up the black economy beyond the country's ability to handle that.
 
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Odyessus

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People resent bitterly having something taken from them they've already received. If social welfare benefits had been 10% lower and simply frozen, you wouldn't hear a murmur.
 

shyster

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I'm not complaining or questioning welfare benefits.

My point is simply that we massively increased welfare benefits up to 2007. A series of budgets that were welcomed at the time. The revised (post budget) benefits are (factually) higher than they were in 2007. Yet now we are being told that the cut being implemented is outrageous, unconsionable etc etc etc.
You haven't answered my question though. How are they in relation to todays cost of living. Because that's the nub of it.
I don't know the answer so it's not a leading question.
 

bob3344

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I'm not complaining or questioning welfare benefits.

My point is simply that we massively increased welfare benefits up to 2007. A series of budgets that were welcomed at the time. The revised (post budget) benefits are (factually) higher than they were in 2007. Yet now we are being told that the cut being implemented is outrageous, unconsionable etc etc etc.
Yeah, usual rabble rousing rhethoric from the usual suspects - why do the poor have to suffer the most etc

They're not suffering the most - the childrens allowance is still massive, dole still very generous by european standards, top 4% still pay 48% of the tax take etc

I know sinn fein would like the top 4% to pay 100% of the tax take, but thats not feasible in the real world. (The real world where they are regarded as criminal scum with a childlike grasp of economics)
 

Cassandra Syndrome

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Back in 2007, Bankers were not receiving any social welfare. To date they have received €80 billion.

Still its easier for cowards to p1ss on the weak and vulnerable and worship their beloved feudalists.
 

eoghanacht

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I'm not complaining or questioning welfare benefits.

My point is simply that we massively increased welfare benefits up to 2007. A series of budgets that were welcomed at the time. The revised (post budget) benefits are (factually) higher than they were in 2007. Yet now we are being told that the cut being implemented is outrageous, unconsionable etc etc etc.
I don't know about outrageous but the point is that whilst TD's pay remains untouched, pensioners also (FF will need their votes) and say someone earing a mil per year will pay an extra 30k in tax (that figure could be grossly wrong, i've read so many differant opinions this week it's hard to know), the fact is my fiance and i will lose 80 per month approx, we find it tough at the moment it'll be even tougher with that taken out, now we'll miss that 20 a week a hell of a lot more than someone earning a mil a year.

I'm not against someone earning a good wage, more power to them. My point is this budget is far from even handed.
 

eoghanacht

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Yeah, usual rabble rousing rhethoric from the usual suspects - why do the poor have to suffer the most etc

)
The usual right wing nonsense from you also.

The racism thread must have got boring
 

shyster

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Yeah, usual rabble rousing rhethoric from the usual suspects - why do the poor have to suffer the most etc

They're not suffering the most - the childrens allowance is still massive, dole still very generous by european standards, top 4% still pay 48% of the tax take etc

I know sinn fein would like the top 4% to pay 100% of the tax take, but thats not feasible in the real world. (The real world where they are regarded as criminal scum with a childlike grasp of economics)

What sort of fool are you? Are you telling me that 'the rich' (define them as you will) are suffering MORE than 'the poor' (easily defined, those living on SW)

How far are you from the P45 and the dole queue, as a matter of interest?
 

Cassandra Syndrome

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You haven't answered my question though. How are they in relation to todays cost of living. Because that's the nub of it.
I don't know the answer so it's not a leading question.
Food and energy would be up quite a bit from 2007 levels (3% for Food and 6% for transport and 12% for housing and utilities, 20% for health, 31% for education) and thats before the upcoming inflation feeding through the commodity supply chain soon.
 


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