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Social Welfare in Ireland - An elaborate Ponsi Scheme?


Asparagus

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Apr 7, 2010
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4,882
So you pay taxes, and you pay Insurance into the big scheme.
A moment comes in your life, usually a significant life changing one, where you go to claim back from the scheme, i.e. - maybe its a new child or you've lost your job, you are sick or have reached retirement age.
You have lived a normal life til now and nearly everything you make is accounted for at the end of the month. This new cost or circumstance is something you can't handle.

So you rock up to the Department of Social Welfare and you says...
"there's me PPS number, you can see me stamps - i need to get some of the money that i contributed, back. Traumatic event and what not eh?"
And they say
"well we'll have to means test you, you can't have money unless you really need it"
but says you,
"but that guy there, he never put any money in at all - why is he withdrawing money from my insurance fund?"
"Well you see, that fellow has never had a job and so as never worked and never contributed, so he is in real need of benefits"
"charity?"
"no benefits - charity is the money we take from you for foreign aid"

Means-test free travel and state pensions

The report proposes a number of options to reform the state pension scheme, including:

• Introducing either a universal pension regardless of contributions or a lifetime's work, or else a means-tested pension scheme.

• Means-testing the household benefits package – the ESB, gas and telephone allowances – and the free travel scheme.

• Increasing or decreasing the state pension for late or early retirement, to encourage people to stay in work longer.

• Linking retirement age, which will be 68 by 2028, to life expectancy after that date. This means payouts by the State will not extend significantly.

• Bringing more "flexibility" in allowing retirees to combine their state pension and wages from work, to encourage people to stay in employment longer.

The means-testing of the state pension is one of the more radical reforms contained in the document, and would have to be costed carefully.
Why does your means matter when it comes to collecting from an insurance scheme?
 


Ren84

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Jan 14, 2011
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What are you on about? Of course people who've worked can claim back what they've paid in if they're out of work. Where are you getting this from? :confused:
 

GDPR

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Jul 5, 2008
Messages
222,748
It should be "Ponzi" not "Ponsi". Makes me think of "poncey" - is that an allowed word nowadays?
 

Bren Boru

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Mar 23, 2010
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I love these OP's that slam an existing situation without providing anything approaching an alternative.

It's basically one long attempt at a soundbite.
 

Asparagus

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Apr 7, 2010
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I love these OP's that slam an existing situation without providing anything approaching an alternative.

It's basically one long attempt at a soundbite.
Sorry the alternative is:

People who contribute in terms of SSI, USC, PAYE - etc for a reasonable lead in should be entitled to benefits without question.
People who don't should be means tested.
 

Bren Boru

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Mar 23, 2010
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Sorry the alternative is:

People who contribute in terms of SSI, USC, PAYE - etc for a reasonable lead in should be entitled to benefits without question.
People who don't should be means tested.
eh.... I'm not sure that would work.
 

Belodedici

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Oct 25, 2010
Messages
785
Damn right, welfare system is a joke, someone who is unemployed after 9 months is means tested even if they have contributed PRSI for the last 8 or 10 years and are saving up for a rainy day, accommodation, family commitments

While the welfare recipient who hasn't contributed PRSI in the last 8 or 10 years is allowed to carry on claiming
 

Dunlin3

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Jan 31, 2009
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What are you on about? Of course people who've worked can claim back what they've paid in if they're out of work. Where are you getting this from? :confused:
Not strictly true. You could have been an employee for 25 years paying full contributions and then decided to set up your own business. If after a year the business doesn't work out it's tough sh1t, means test before you get a penny.
 

Clanrickard

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Apr 25, 2008
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32,951
eh.... I'm not sure that would work.
If you have spent your entire life doing nothing you should means tested to within an inch of your life and get the bare minimum to survive. If you have worked and paid in contributions you should entitled to a pension as of right. The Ant and the Grasshopper.
 

Clanrickard

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Apr 25, 2008
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Not strictly true. You could have been an employee for 25 years paying full contributions and then decided to set up your own business. If after a year the business doesn't work out it's tough sh1t, means test before you get a penny.
The Public Sector don't get those pensions all their own. Pay up debt slave!
 

TARZAN

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Apr 10, 2010
Messages
4,436
What are you on about? Of course people who've worked can claim back what they've paid in if they're out of work. Where are you getting this from? :confused:
Who told you this?
I worked for 25 years before becoming unemployed last year, I receive 9 months JS and then its goodbye and thanks for the contributions.
Quick calculation is I paid over 200K in taxes, usc, prsi in the last 12 years and I get 9 months of 188 a week before being cut off completely because my wife earns 400 per week.
 

Asparagus

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Apr 7, 2010
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4,882
What is the purpose of the Department of Social Protection?

Who made it up?
Who had the autority to do so?

We had a department of Social Welfare from 1947-97
("Welfare is the ... provision of a minimal level of well-being and social support for all citizens, sometimes referred to as public aid")
then it was
Social, Community and Family Affairs for 5 years
then community got the boot and it became
Social and Family for 5 years
befroe family was shunted off to Health and the word "Protection" was inserted.


So who are we protecting and how does giving people handouts protect them? Are they being threathened by hard work?
Why are we stripping the supports and rights of net social contributers away to offer security and protection to people who are not working or have specifically come here looking for people to "protect" them via free money.
Is this "protection" not just making the contributer more vulnerable?


The website doesn't exactly tell you why they do what they do but the mission statement in Joan Burton's brief says its her job

"To promote active participation in society through the provision of income supports, employment services and other services."

Is that it - are we all happy that we have a minister who's job it is to, get people to participate in society by giving them money.

Is that not a anti social measure?
 

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