Socialism in operation today.

Kommunist

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https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/oct/20/marinaleda-spanish-communist-village-utopia

The second part of Marinaleda's miracle is that over three extraordinary decades, it won. Some distance along that remarkable journey of struggle and sacrifice, in 1985, Sánchez Gordillo told the newspaper El País: "We have learned that it is not enough to define utopia, nor is it enough to fight against the reactionary forces. One must build it here and now, brick by brick, patiently but steadily, until we can make the old dreams a reality: that there will be bread for all, freedom among citizens, and culture; and to be able to read with respect the word 'peace '. We sincerely believe that there is no future that is not built in the present."
When the 1,200-hectare El Humoso farm was finally won in 1991 – awarded to the village by the regional government following a decade of relentless occupations, strikes and appeals – cultivation began. The new Marinaleda co-operative selected crops that would need the greatest amount of human labour, to create as much work as possible. In addition to the ubiquitous olives and the oil-processing factory, they planted peppers of various kinds, artichokes, fava beans, green beans, broccoli: crops that could be processed, canned, and jarred, to justify the creation of a processing factory that provided a secondary industry back in the village, and thus more employment. "Our aim was not to create profit, but jobs," Sánchez Gordillo explained to me. This philosophy runs directly counter to the late-capitalist emphasis on "efficiency" – a word that has been elevated to almost holy status in the neoliberal lexicon, but in reality has become a shameful euphemism for the sacrifice of human dignity at the altar of share prices.

Sánchez Gordillo once suggested to me that the aristocratic family of the House of Alba could invest its vast riches (from shares in banks and power companies to multimillion-euro agricultural subsidies for its vast tracts of land) to create jobs, but had never shown any interest in doing so. "We believe the land should belong to the community that works it, and not in the dead hands of the nobility." That's why the big landowners planted wheat, he explained – wheat could be harvested with a machine, overseen by a few labourers; in Marinaleda, crops like artichokes and tomatoes were chosen precisely because they needed lots of labour. Why, the logic runs, should "efficiency" be the most important value in society, to the detriment of human life?
Marinaleda: A Socialist Utopia in Spain

[video=youtube;Xxjm606xkIg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xxjm606xkIg[/video]

One of the few places in Spain that's been left off easy from austerity it seems due to organizing their economy on the basis of economic democracy. In fact, if we look at other areas where worker co-operatives are prominent, unemployment is remarkably low as well.

The Red Belt in Italy for instance has significantly lower unemployment because the amount of worker co-operatives is higher. Mondragon Corporation in Northern/Central Spain has also kept unemployment significantly lower than the rest of Spain due to the way it's organized.

Mondragon:

[video=youtube;8ZoI0C1mPek]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ZoI0C1mPek[/video]
 


mossyman

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Thank you. I had read of the Mondragon Corporation before. It was creating jobs in the recession in Spain when most other companies were letting people go. I think these are more like anarcho-syndicalist models than anything else. Anarchism historically had a strong base in Spain, particularly in the Aragon, Catalonia and Levant regions. Mondragon is in the Basque country. Noam Chomsky has mentioned the Mondragon Corporation a good few times as a good example of worker co-operatives.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mondragon_Corporation
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/mar/07/mondragon-spains-giant-cooperative
Basque co-operative Mondragon defies Spain slump - BBC News
 

Kommunist

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I think economic democracy is pretty common sense. There's only eight co-operatives in Ireland apparently!
 

mossyman

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I think economic democracy is pretty common sense. There's only eight co-operatives in Ireland apparently!
I think the dairy farmers have co-operatives. It makes sense for them. Although their prices are really been driven down by the power the big super market chains which is making it very hard for smaller farmers.
 

Hunter-Gatherer

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mossyman

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Lúidín

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They're due a 'colour revolution' or a drone strike any day now.
 

Kommunist

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I think the dairy farmers have co-operatives. It makes sense for them. Although their prices are really been driven down by the power the big super market chains which is making it very hard for smaller farmers.
As far as I know, the farmers in Ireland that are "co-ops" (such as Kerry co-op) are co-ops in name only.
 

Dimples 77

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https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/oct/20/marinaleda-spanish-communist-village-utopia

Marinaleda: A Socialist Utopia in Spain


One of the few places in Spain that's been left off easy from austerity it seems due to organizing their economy on the basis of economic democracy. In fact, if we look at other areas where worker co-operatives are prominent, unemployment is remarkably low as well.

The Red Belt in Italy for instance has significantly lower unemployment because the amount of worker co-operatives is higher. Mondragon Corporation in Northern/Central Spain has also kept unemployment significantly lower than the rest of Spain due to the way it's organized.

I suppose that's fair enough if you consider the extent of life to be growing produce for the consumption of the community.

If you want to spend all day working at growing this produce, and meal times consuming it, that's fine. But isn't there more to life than that?
 

Kommunist

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I suppose that's fair enough if you consider the extent of life to be growing produce for the consumption of the community.

If you want to spend all day working at growing this produce, and meal times consuming it, that's fine. But isn't there more to life than that?
Sure and it seems that they work 6 and a half hours a day leaving plenty of time for everything else. Not having to worry about unemployment or homelessness definitely makes one less worried about their future too.
 

Dimples 77

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Sure and it seems that they work 6 and a half hours a day leaving plenty of time for everything else. Not having to worry about unemployment or homelessness definitely makes one less worried about their future too.
What exactly is everything else in their context?

If they all get paid the same - and not that much - what else can they afford to do?
 

Ex celt

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What exactly is everything else in their context?

If they all get paid the same - and not that much - what else can they afford to do?
Is there spacecake and free love? Can you confirm that it is a sf/ira free-zone?
 

Catalpast

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MR K - there have been co-ops in Ireland since at least the 1890s

History Ireland

But while they are a useful addition to a State's economy they lack the dynamism to drive one forward

Innovation Innovation Innovation

- comes from risk taking and being prepared to engage in serious R&D to seek news ways to turn a profit

States by their nature (outside of War) tend to be conservative

- inventors, innovators and entrepreneurs backed by Capital are the factors driving technology, medicine and food production forward

The co op model is a low key help line

- and that is good

But it is not the solution to economic progress...
 

mossyman

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MR K - there have been co-ops in Ireland since at least the 1890s

History Ireland

But while they are a useful addition to a State's economy they lack the dynamism to drive one forward

Innovation Innovation Innovation

- comes from risk taking and being prepared to engage in serious R&D to seek news ways to turn a profit

States by their nature (outside of War) tend to be conservative

- inventors, innovators and entrepreneurs backed by Capital are the factors driving technology, medicine and food production forward

The co op model is a low key help line

- and that is good

But it is not the solution to economic progress...
The Mondragon Co-op does R&D. From Wikipedia:
Knowledge
This area has a dual focus: education-training and innovation, which have both been key elements in the development of the Corporation. Training-education is mainly linked to the dynamism of Mondragon University, the significant role that Politeknika Ikastegia Txorierri, Arizmendi Ikastola and Lea Artibai Ikastetxea play in their respective areas and the activity of the Management and Co-operative Development Centre Otalora.
Mondragon University is a co-operative university, which combines the development of knowledge, skills, and values, and maintains close relations with business, especially Mondragon co-operatives. Technological innovation is generated through the co-operatives’ own R&D departments, the Corporate Science and Technology Plan, the corporation’s 12 technology centres and the Garaia Innovation Park.
The 15 technology centres play a fundamental role in the development of the sectors of focus. In 2009 they employed 742 people and had a budget of €53.7 million. In 2013 its network of technology centres and R&D units provided employment for 1,700 people and the commitment to R&D&I matters amounted to 136 million Euros, 8.5% of added value. Mondragon has 479 families of Patents for Inventions, which accounts for 25% patents in the Basque Country, participating in more than 30 R&D cooperation projects at the European level.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mondragon_Corporation#Knowledge
 

Dimples 77

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MR K - there have been co-ops in Ireland since at least the 1890s

History Ireland

But while they are a useful addition to a State's economy they lack the dynamism to drive one forward

Innovation Innovation Innovation

- comes from risk taking and being prepared to engage in serious R&D to seek news ways to turn a profit

States by their nature (outside of War) tend to be conservative

- inventors, innovators and entrepreneurs backed by Capital are the factors driving technology, medicine and food production forward

The co op model is a low key help line

- and that is good

But it is not the solution to economic progress...


They don't seem to want progress to be fair. They seem to be content enough growing their own food and consuming it. Presumably they don't need stuff like fancy cars, and big houses, and electronic gadgetry.
 

Kommunist

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What exactly is everything else in their context?

If they all get paid the same - and not that much - what else can they afford to do?
They seem to be able to afford double what the ordinary Spaniard does because if you read the article the wage in this place is double the minimum wage..
 

Kommunist

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MR K - there have been co-ops in Ireland since at least the 1890s

History Ireland

But while they are a useful addition to a State's economy they lack the dynamism to drive one forward

Innovation Innovation Innovation

- comes from risk taking and being prepared to engage in serious R&D to seek news ways to turn a profit

States by their nature (outside of War) tend to be conservative

- inventors, innovators and entrepreneurs backed by Capital are the factors driving technology, medicine and food production forward

The co op model is a low key help line

- and that is good

But it is not the solution to economic progress...
Both Albert Einstein and Stephen Hawking decry capitalism as cancerous and Socialism the answer. Are these two scientists with world renown lying or perhaps innovation has nothing to do with capitalism and just a general pursuit of knowledge by people?
 

Kommunist

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MR K - there have been co-ops in Ireland since at least the 1890s

History Ireland

But while they are a useful addition to a State's economy they lack the dynamism to drive one forward

Innovation Innovation Innovation

- comes from risk taking and being prepared to engage in serious R&D to seek news ways to turn a profit

States by their nature (outside of War) tend to be conservative

- inventors, innovators and entrepreneurs backed by Capital are the factors driving technology, medicine and food production forward

The co op model is a low key help line

- and that is good

But it is not the solution to economic progress...
Would you say the USSR were bad at inventing
 


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