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Socialist paradise Venezuela can't even keep the lights on.


toughbutfair

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May 28, 2009
Messages
9,751
socialism ALWAYS fails. I feel sorry for the people of Venezuela (I've met a few) and Cubans and North Koreans and hope one day they are free.
 

Cassandra Syndrome

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Aug 23, 2009
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16,908
Ah give Chavez a chance, at least he is a man of the people, not a champagne socialist living in an ivory tower dictating everyone else's social choice in egalatarian poverty....

 

Casillas

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Aug 11, 2010
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991
Like a lot of attempted social revolutions, the good ideas and intentions get derailed by reality and veer into dictatorship and repression. It's a recurring theme unfortunately.
 

Cassandra Syndrome

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Like a lot of attempted social revolutions, the good ideas and intentions get derailed by reality and veer into dictatorship and repression. It's a recurring theme unfortunately.
Very true. This was well documented and illustrated in Hayek's 1944 book The Road to Serfdom
 

ffc

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Nov 6, 2007
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5,167
did you even read the article, the country is experiencing an economic boom, the demand for electriicity is surging and the plan is to reduce unnecessary power consumption. they have had some serious problems with drought which has reduced the availability of hydroelectric power but the people of Venezuela can always vote for the old guard that looked after them so well in the good old days of american backed dictatorships. Venezuela is now a democracy and the people can vote Chavez out if he is failing.
 

CookieMonster

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Feb 19, 2005
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34,801
did you even read the article, the country is experiencing an economic boom, the demand for electriicity is surging and the plan is to reduce unnecessary power consumption. they have had some serious problems with drought which has reduced the availability of hydroelectric power but the people of Venezuela can always vote for the old guard that looked after them so well in the good old days of american backed dictatorships. Venezuela is now a democracy and the people can vote Chavez out if he is failing.
Indeed they can, assuming the candidate isn't denounced for some "crime" and removed from the ballot etc etc etc.
 

Cassandra Syndrome

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Aug 23, 2009
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16,908
did you even read the article, the country is experiencing an economic boom, the demand for electriicity is surging and the plan is to reduce unnecessary power consumption. they have had some serious problems with drought which has reduced the availability of hydroelectric power but the people of Venezuela can always vote for the old guard that looked after them so well in the good old days of american backed dictatorships. Venezuela is now a democracy and the people can vote Chavez out if he is failing.
The economy shrank last year by 2.8%, unemployment is over 12%, 28% of people are below the poverty line, inflation is at 30% and it was a wealthier country back in the 1950s.

It has one of the largest oil reserves in the world and the country is in dire poverty, a complete disgrace.

And big fat Chavez pigs out in his crib like a medieval feudal lord acting on a pretense of empathy. Make you puke.
 

CookieMonster

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Feb 19, 2005
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34,801
Also assuming the parliament is not gerrymandered to hurt Chavez opponents.
What re you saying? That would never happen! Chavez is a democrat, Venezuela is a democracy....


Isn't it?
 
M

MrFunkyBoogaloo

Not to be glib (or pro Chavez) but many in the crony capitalist society of Ireland cannot keep their lights on either.
 

antiestablishmentarian

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May 25, 2009
Messages
2,151
Funny that people always seek to knock underdeveloped countries which try a different route, when in this country thousands had their electricity knocked off last year for inability to pay bills. Perhaps some here will remember the parable about having a splinter in your eye and berating your neighbour for the dust in their eye. As for Venezuela being a democracy, did Chavez or did he not respect the results of the last referendum where he lost? If memory serves me right I'm pretty sure he did. Perhaps the establishment here could learn a few lessons on democracy from Venezuela when it comes to respecting referendum results.
 

meriwether

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Dec 1, 2004
Messages
12,604
I must point out that if the central tenent of your post is that Socialism/Chavez is failing/failed due to an economic recession, then Capitalism and democracy itself has also failed, numerous times.

Also, rolling blackouts have happened in California.

Chavez may or may not fail. Its currently not looking good. Socialism may or may not work. Currently it doesn't. But tamer forms of it clearly do. Its whetehr this version of 'what works' is preferrable to a capitalist/tamer capitalist version of 'what works'.

I'd go for the capitalist one every day myself.
 

Cassandra Syndrome

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Joined
Aug 23, 2009
Messages
16,908
Funny that people always seek to knock underdeveloped countries which try a different route, when in this country thousands had their electricity knocked off last year for inability to pay bills. Perhaps some here will remember the parable about having a splinter in your eye and berating your neighbour for the dust in their eye. As for Venezuela being a democracy, did Chavez or did he not respect the results of the last referendum where he lost? If memory serves me right I'm pretty sure he did. Perhaps the establishment here could learn a few lessons on democracy from Venezuela when it comes to respecting referendum results.
We are victims of central planning as well. Its the same thing whether its neo liberalism, Keynesian or Chavez's style of socialism.

This country never really had a democracy. It has a decent constitution however.
 

Cassandra Syndrome

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Aug 23, 2009
Messages
16,908
I must point out that if the central tenent of your post is that Socialism/Chavez is failing/failed due to an economic recession, then Capitalism and democracy itself has also failed, numerous times.

Also, rolling blackouts have happened in California.

Chavez may or may not fail. Its currently not looking good. Socialism may or may not work. Currently it doesn't. But tamer forms of it clearly do. Its whetehr this version of 'what works' is preferrable to a capitalist/tamer capitalist version of 'what works'.

I'd go for the capitalist one every day myself.
The common denominator is central planning. Some people describe Scandinavian countries as socialist, and the system has had better success there from not being so centrally planning and allowing local small enterprises to go on their discovery of competition process without been stamped on the face by the state.
 

Tombo

1
Joined
Aug 27, 2009
Messages
5,306
Funny that people always seek to knock underdeveloped countries which try a different route, when in this country thousands had their electricity knocked off last year for inability to pay bills. Perhaps some here will remember the parable about having a splinter in your eye and berating your neighbour for the dust in their eye. As for Venezuela being a democracy, did Chavez or did he not respect the results of the last referendum where he lost? If memory serves me right I'm pretty sure he did. Perhaps the establishment here could learn a few lessons on democracy from Venezuela when it comes to respecting referendum results.
No, he lost a referendum to allow himself unlimited terms in office in 2007 and than decided to give the people a second chance to get the correct answer in 2009.


Here is some of his sporting and democratic rhetoric following the 2007 loss:

Watch out, US lovers, celebrate. You have no dignity anyhow. Where could you have it? I recommend you to administer your victory wisely, because we will launch a renewed offensive for the great constitutional reform. ... You have a second offensive left for the constitutional reform. I cannot say that we did not make it."

This was how he neatly phrased the repeat referendum question to allow him unlimited reelection:

Do you approve the amendment of articles 160, 162, 174, 192 and 230 of the Constitution of the Republic, as processed by the National Assembly, which increases the political rights of the people, with the purpose of allowing any citizen incumbent in an elected office, to be nominated as candidate for the same office, for the period of time established constitutionally, his or her possible re-election depending exclusively on popular vote?
No, I don't see where it says it is removing term limits for reelection either. But it must be a good thing because Chavez said it would "increase the political rights of the people"


Chavez is lambasted because he is and most likely always was a simple gangster in the style of communists Guevera, Castro, Stalin, Mugabe etc.

Venezuela is shaping as Zimbabwe MKII
 

NewRepublic

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Jan 31, 2009
Messages
480
What is it the second most likely country behind Greece to default? Ireland being 4th. We both have been destroyed by socialism (remember Bertie?).
 
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