Soft Brexitt border with Northern Ireland wouldl result in demands that businesses record all their imports and incentivise vast smuggling networks

Patslatt1

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Soft Brexitt border with Northern Ireland wouldl result in demands that businesses record all their imports and incentivise vast smuggling networks

Both the EU and the UK would want to plug potential leaks of billions in tariffs on trade across a frictionless Irish border after Brexit and to prevent vast smuggling networks from developing. The UK vaguely suggested it will track goods when they reach warehouses and final destinations for collecting tariffs. That would require huge increases in record keeping by import and export firms, which might be similar to onerous VAT reporting.

For instance, instead of checking a truckload of goods at the border and imposing a tariff bill there, customs and excise departments might have to monitor shipments at multiple delivery points on that truck's journey. Each delivery point would be required to record the shipment and make a payment of a tariff. In practice, customs would be overwhelmed by the increase in tariff transactions and would have to rely on self reporting by businesses.

This self reporting in a frictionless border would create incentives for vast smuggling networks. A truck crossing into the Republic might deliver goods to a customer who pays the bill to an Irish subsidiary company and in collusion with the seller fails to record the tariff due.

Off the books smuggling would include shipments of goods with no paper trail and paid for in cash.

Software and electronic tracking could be developed to reduce smuggling and cheating on tariffs but the costs might be greater than the uncollected tariffs. Under the Blair government, the NHS attempted to create a single computerised file for all patients but gave up after the cost proved too great.
 


gleeful

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File 'soft border' along with Berties 'soft landing' as complete bullsh1t sold to fools.
 

Patslatt1

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File 'soft border' along with Berties 'soft landing' as complete bullsh1t sold to fools.
The prolonged Fitzgerald agony seems to have distracted p.ie readers from discussing here the practicalities of Brexit for the border trade.
 

Man or Mouse

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Both the EU and the UK would want to plug potential leaks of billions in tariffs on trade across a frictionless Irish border after Brexit and to prevent vast smuggling networks from developing. The UK vaguely suggested it will track goods when they reach warehouses and final destinations for collecting tariffs. That would require huge increases in record keeping by import and export firms, which might be similar to onerous VAT reporting.

For instance, instead of checking a truckload of goods at the border and imposing a tariff bill there, customs and excise departments might have to monitor shipments at multiple delivery points on that truck's journey. Each delivery point would be required to record the shipment and make a payment of a tariff. In practice, customs would be overwhelmed by the increase in tariff transactions and would have to rely on self reporting by businesses.

This self reporting in a frictionless border would create incentives for vast smuggling networks. A truck crossing into the Republic might deliver goods to a customer who pays the bill to an Irish subsidiary company and in collusion with the seller fails to record the tariff due.

Off the books smuggling would include shipments of goods with no paper trail and paid for in cash.

Software and electronic tracking could be developed to reduce smuggling and cheating on tariffs but the costs might be greater than the uncollected tariffs. Under the Blair government, the NHS attempted to create a single computerised file for all patients but gave up after the cost proved too great.
My experience of NI commercial drivers was one where many of the laws that seem to be enforced down here are blithely ignored up there. Cash is a big part of that scenario. And that's under present arrangements.
 

Patslatt1

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My experience of NI commercial drivers was one where many of the laws that seem to be enforced down here are blithely ignored up there. Cash is a big part of that scenario. And that's under present arrangements.
The soft border was confirmed in the UK/EU negotiations yesterday.Two cheers for smuggling occupations and a boom in hiring customs and excise agents north and south!
 

Roll_On

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If NI does indeed leave the customs union, buy yourself a van. Items with a significant price differential on either side of the line will be a goldmine
 

owedtojoy

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Both the EU and the UK would want to plug potential leaks of billions in tariffs on trade across a frictionless Irish border after Brexit and to prevent vast smuggling networks from developing. The UK vaguely suggested it will track goods when they reach warehouses and final destinations for collecting tariffs. That would require huge increases in record keeping by import and export firms, which might be similar to onerous VAT reporting.

For instance, instead of checking a truckload of goods at the border and imposing a tariff bill there, customs and excise departments might have to monitor shipments at multiple delivery points on that truck's journey. Each delivery point would be required to record the shipment and make a payment of a tariff. In practice, customs would be overwhelmed by the increase in tariff transactions and would have to rely on self reporting by businesses.

This self reporting in a frictionless border would create incentives for vast smuggling networks. A truck crossing into the Republic might deliver goods to a customer who pays the bill to an Irish subsidiary company and in collusion with the seller fails to record the tariff due.

Off the books smuggling would include shipments of goods with no paper trail and paid for in cash.

Software and electronic tracking could be developed to reduce smuggling and cheating on tariffs but the costs might be greater than the uncollected tariffs. Under the Blair government, the NHS attempted to create a single computerised file for all patients but gave up after the cost proved too great.
Isn't that just what the IRA were doing for years?

"Soft border" means the status quo, by the way. What you have right now.
 

owedtojoy

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File 'soft border' along with Berties 'soft landing' as complete bullsh1t sold to fools.
Sounds just like Brexit, then.

Its like the Red Queen in Through the Looking Glass. She runs very fast but always stays in the same place.
 

owedtojoy

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The soft border was confirmed in the UK/EU negotiations yesterday.Two cheers for smuggling occupations and a boom in hiring customs and excise agents north and south!
"Soft Border" = Status Quo

A border with new excise agents by definition is not a soft border, and has been ruled out by the DUP and the UK gov.
 

Patslatt1

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"Soft Border" = Status Quo

A border with new excise agents by definition is not a soft border, and has been ruled out by the DUP and the UK gov.
The agents won't worlk at border crossongs but will be needed to collect customs and excise taxes on shipments at delivery points past the border.
 

SPN

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Patslatt1

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= Status Quo, minus UK MEPs, minus a UK Commisioner, minus UK Representation at Council of Ministers Meetings, and minus UK representation on the ECJ.

Varadkar and Coveney must be píssing themselves tonight.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/dec/08/ireland-leaders-deal-britain-edging-towards-soft-brexit?CMP=fb_gu
PLAN B: HARD BORDER INSIDE REPUBLIC

If I'm right that vast smuggling networks will develop on a soft border as mainland Britain leaves the single EU market, smuggling gangs will become very rich and powerful, eventually threatening the stability of the Irish state just as the cocaine gangsters threatened Columbia. In that event, there will be pressure from the EU and the UK for Ireland to hire thousands of customs and excise agents and border police to safeguard product market standards, collect tariffs and capture smugglers.

However, the porous Irish border can only be efficiently policed with a hard border no matter how many customs and border police are hired. The politically acceptable solution would be the creation of a hard border inside the the Republic, maybe up to ten miles back from the border with Northern Ireland and crossing all the border counties from Donegal to Louth. See the map https://www.google.ie/search?q=map+of+ireland+counties&tbm=isch&source=iu&ictx=1&fir=ZuB38I-EHbSCIM%3A%2CtpVj7BxQRnWOXM%2C_&usg=__EW8kcZeZ0WfyjfklG9CfecH4Gwc=&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjxzIndy_3XAhWHJsAKHfVUBzcQ9QEIKzAB#imgrc=ZuB38I-EHbSCIM:
 
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