Solar Minimum 2009, Global Cooling and the Record Breaking Winter

brigg

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2. Are there a huge number of severe snowstorms being reported that are the worse in 100 years?

3. Did we have only 3 Atlantic Hurricanes in 2009?
Severe snowstorms in places where it tends to be cold in Winter, does not imply colder than average weather, but wetter than average weather.

El-Nino, which we had in 2009, suppresses Atlantic Hurricane activity, but enhances Pacific Hurricane activity.
1997, which had a record-breaking el-nino, also had an inactive Atlantic season, but a hyperactive Pacific Season.

Nevertheless, 2009 did see the formation of Category 4 Atlantic Hurricane Bill, which was the fifth largest on record.
 
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ibis

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Severe snowstorms in places where it tends to cold in Winter, does not imply colder than average weather, but wetter than average weather.

El-Nino, which we had in 2009, suppresses Atlantic Hurricane activity, but enhances Pacific Hurricane activity.
1997, which had a record-breaking el-nino, also had an inactive Atlantic season, but a hyperactive Pacific Season.

Nevertheless, 2009 did see the formation of Category 4 Atlantic Hurricane Bill, which was the fifth largest on record.
As to the 2009 Pacific Hurricane Season:

The 2009 Pacific hurricane season was a very active ongoing event in the annual cycle of tropical cyclone formation. The season officially started on May 15 in the eastern Pacific, and on June 1 for the central Pacific, and officially ended on November 30, 2009. For the first time in ten years, no tropical depressions formed during the month of May. This inactivity continued into the early part of June and was the least active since 1994. The first named storm of the season did not develop until June 21, marking the latest start to a Pacific hurricane season in 40 years. However, the NHC's tropical weather summary, released in early September, found that August 2009, with 7 named storms, was one of the most active Augusts on record for the basin. This level of activity had rarely, or not at all, occurred in the past 41 years, since 1968, when the most active August on record for the eastern Pacific with 9 named storms occurred.
2009 Pacific Typhoon Season:

During the season, 39 Tropical depressions developed within the Western Pacific, whilst 2 formed outside the region before moving into the Western Pacific.
etc, etc. Once more CS picks only the data that agrees with him, and ignores any contradictory information.
 

Cassandra Syndrome

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Was 2009 an abnormally cold year? No, it was very warm. Any sign of a 100-year temperature minimum here?



Argument fail.

Sigh. Here's the solar cycle/temperature correlation from "Surface warming by the solar cycle as revealed by the composite mean difference projection" by Charles D. Camp and Ka Kit Tung (2007):



Nice correlation...only problem is that the temperature line here excludes the warming trend.
Where you there? Can you trust the data? I know that the Data used for GDP, CPI and unemployment are a complete inaccuracy as a representative of the truth. So why should I know trust this data? I can physical see, hear and feel the depression but not by how the data is conveyed.

2009 was an adnormally cold year. Our own summer was cold. Anyone I know from the world bar Australia (which was January 2009) had the same experience. The Autumn had very few hurricanes. Only 3 and they were all Category 2 or lower.

They say that 2009 was the 2nd or 3rd hottest on record is that not right? Therefore we should have been having the odd few extreme temperatures popping up here and there at the very least.

When is the last time we had so many record breaking snowfalls (within 100 years)? I linked a report were the Arctic regions temperatures are below average as well. So where is all this heat to compensate? I know that Brazil is having a heatwave, but thats no news shock.

Is it not highly coincidental that the sun is at a 100 year low and there are 100 year records of snowfall being recorded?
 

SAT

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As to the 2009 Pacific Hurricane Season:



2009 Pacific Typhoon Season:



etc, etc. Once more CS picks only the data that agrees with him, and ignores any contradictory information.
:confused: Your excerpt says it was the quietest start to the Pacific hurricane season in 40 years which only picked up towards the end of the season. What point did you think you were making?
 

SAT

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Where you there? Can you trust the data? I know that the Data used for GDP, CPI and unemployment are a complete inaccuracy as a representative of the truth. So why should I know trust this data?
Even Phil Jones of CRU infamy admitted in his recent interview the temperature record is dodgy and yet Ibis and co. continue to trot them out as if Moses brought them down the mountain, carved in stone, from God himself. :rolleyes:

Perhaps some of the alarmists on here should get professional treatment for their Heliophobia.
 
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ibis

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Where you there? Can you trust the data? I know that the Data used for GDP, CPI and unemployment are a complete inaccuracy as a representative of the truth. So why should I know trust this data? I can physical see, hear and feel the depression but not by how the data is conveyed.
Congratulations. Let's start at evolution, work up through the germ theory of disease, and then lets dismiss the current economic crisis if your personal pay-packet hasn't suffered.

2009 was an adnormally cold year. Our own summer was cold. Anyone I know from the world bar Australia (which was January 2009) had the same experience. The Autumn had very few hurricanes. Only 3 and they were all Category 2 or lower.

They say that 2009 was the 2nd or 3rd hottest on record is that not right? Therefore we should have been having the odd few extreme temperatures popping up here and there at the very least.
No, because we're not talking about "very hot". We're talking about differences of a couple of tenths of a degree. The whole industrial temperature rise is only a degree and a bit over a century - not the stuff extreme temperatures are made of.

When is the last time we had so many record breaking snowfalls (within 100 years)? I linked a report were the Arctic regions temperatures are below average as well. So where is all this heat to compensate? I know that Brazil is having a heatwave, but thats no news shock.

Is it not highly coincidental that the sun is at a 100 year low and there are 100 year records of snowfall being recorded?
Highly coincidental indeed, since snow, like rain, is wet, not particularly cold. Unless you're changing your theory to the idea that the solar cycle controls precipitation, you're using the wrong piece of evidence entirely.
 

brigg

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The Autumn had very few hurricanes. Only 3 and they were all Category 2 or lower.
El-Nino = quiet hurricane season in the atlantic.

http://www.aoml.noaa.gov/hrd/Landsea/elnino/index.html
It is now well-accepted that El Niño reduces hurricane activity in the Atlantic Basin. Gray (1984) uses physical processes that accompany El Niño to describe reduced hurricane activity. Gray (1984) also finds that of the 54 major hurricanes striking the United States coast during 1900-83, only four occurred during the 16 El Niño years in contrast to 50 making landfall during the 68 non-El Niño years. This is a rate of 0.25 major hurricanes per year during El Niño events and 0.74 during non-El Niño years, almost a three to one ratio.
The 'Gray' mentioned here happens to be Dr. Bill Gray, an outspoken AGW sceptic, (just in case you are suspicious of the above data!)
 

Cassandra Syndrome

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As to the 2009 Pacific Hurricane Season:



2009 Pacific Typhoon Season:



etc, etc. Once more CS picks only the data that agrees with him, and ignores any contradictory information.
The 2009 typhoon season (22) had one of the fewest storms on record. 2003 had 1 less and you have to go back to 1977 to find to find another year that had less (17).

2004 had 29, 2001 and 2002 had 26 each, 1996 had 33, 1994 had 36.

List of Pacific typhoon seasons - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 

Cassandra Syndrome

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Congratulations. Let's start at evolution, work up through the germ theory of disease, and then lets dismiss the current economic crisis if your personal pay-packet hasn't suffered.

No, because we're not talking about "very hot". We're talking about differences of a couple of tenths of a degree. The whole industrial temperature rise is only a degree and a bit over a century - not the stuff extreme temperatures are made of.

Highly coincidental indeed, since snow, like rain, is wet, not particularly cold. Unless you're changing your theory to the idea that the solar cycle controls precipitation, you're using the wrong piece of evidence entirely.
When was the last winter that had so many record snowfalls?

Speaking of the economic crisis, the falloff in industrial turnover is well into the double figures. Therefore Carbon Emissions will have correlated to this. So no need to worry.
 

Malbekh

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Link? Proof?
A quick glance at recent sunshine data at Dublin airport shows 2009 was sunnier than normal.
People tend to remember the wet July, but June was far sunnier than normal, as was December, November, September, May, and March, February '09, and January '10!
In case it hasn't occurred to you, the summer holidays are usually in July and August.
 

brigg

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The 2009 typhoon season (22) had one of the fewest storms on record. 2003 had 1 less and you have to go back to 1977 to find to find another year that had less (17).

2004 had 29, 2001 and 2002 had 26 each, 1996 had 33, 1994 had 36.

List of Pacific typhoon seasons - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This only applies to the western Pacific, the link Ibis posted earlier is for the Central and Eastern Pacific.
Hurricanes rarely occur at all in the Central Pacific outside of El-Nino years.
In December 2009 central Pacific Ocean surface temperatures were at their warmest level since the El Niño of 1997-98.

The Eastern Pacific had Hurricane Rick, the second strongest Pacific Hurricane on record, second only to 1997's Hurricane Linda, which was spawned by the record-El Nino that year.
 

feargach

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feargach

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Is anyone noticing the irony of cassandra being shown crystal-clear graphs of temperatures, yet him failing to get the point?

2 + 2 = 56368453, anyone?
 

Cassandra Syndrome

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Is anyone noticing the irony of cassandra being shown crystal-clear graphs of temperatures, yet him failing to get the point?

2 + 2 = 56368453, anyone?
Its all about ego and control, isn't it? Lets not dare have a discussion on the role the sun has in determining our climate.

How can one believe the data when,

1. The recent scandal involving the East Anglia University.
2. Increase in Urbanisation effect on surface temperatures.
3. Record snowfalls all around the world. TOday New York is getting a "snowicane". Anyone heard of that before?
 

feargach

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Its all about ego and control, isn't it? Lets not dare have a discussion on the role the sun has in determining our climate.

How can one believe the data when,

1. The recent scandal involving the East Anglia University.
2. Increase in Urbanisation effect on surface temperatures.
3. Record snowfalls all around the world. TOday New York is getting a "snowicane". Anyone heard of that before?
1. The data is not under the control of EAU and never was. You are like the Party people in your beloved 1984 on this point, parroting lies from the Ministry of Truth.
2. Even if you exclude all data from "urban heat islands", there is still great evidence of warming. You forget that there is such a thing as Google Earth: we can now check if the location of a given weather station is in an urban area or not. Unless you are now going to say that the urban areas are camouflaged as wilderness in order to give a false picture of AGW.
3. Are Alaska and Australia all around the world? Because they had one of their hottest winters ever. When you average it out, it's not much of an anti-AGW argument.
 

feargach

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Oh come on, have a sense of humour, it's a great help on this website.
Malbekh, do you see any flaws in the arguments used by Cassandra on this thread, or does it all make perfect sense to you?
 

ibis

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Iowa, yes and in amongst the series are France, Britain, Australia and New zealand.
...and pictures of clouds proves what, though? Should I respond with pictures of blue skies?

1. The recent scandal involving the East Anglia University.
2. Increase in Urbanisation effect on surface temperatures.
3. Record snowfalls all around the world. TOday New York is getting a "snowicane". Anyone heard of that before?
Well, (1) had no relevance to the data - the only thing that has so far been found worthy of censure is the response to FOI requests; (2) has been extensively studied, so there's no reason to just keep saying "what if?"; and (3) has no relevance, because snowfall is a measure of precipitation, not temperature.
 


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