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Solidarity missing at Black's funeral.


theloner

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Mar 24, 2011
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Over the last few years, we have seen, possibly for the first time in NI, unified condemnation of recent killings from across the political spectrum. These include, the two British soldiers killed in Antrim, Stephen Carrol in Craigavon, Ronan Kerr in Omagh and now David Black in Lurgan.

The above professions in which the above men worked were always controversial, a fact recognised by the fact the PSNI replaced the RUC, the fact thirty prison officers lost their lives in the course of the last 30 years, and the British Army's historical grim legacy in Ireland.

The Black family yesterday requested that no SF representatives attend the funeral. SF attended the funeral of the two PSNI men killed by republicans, it was also wiling to send a representative to Mr.Black's wake and funeral, but was asked to stay away. Would it not have been better if the Black family would have allowed the Deputy First Minister attend with the First Minister to continue the solidarity show that Stormont wants to promote at all costs?

SF has put its neck on the line over the course of the last 14 years. There is a sizeable part of the republican electorate that is disenfranchised with SF, the snub by the Black family will have the splintered republicans laughing up their sleeves at the fact MMcG was told to stay away, it paints a poorer picture of the Black family and raises questions the type of prison officer Mr. Black was, as if this is the attitude towards SF, what was the attitude towards the current crop of republicans serving time, particularly in the context of the current dispute within the jail?

Mr. Black served during the darkest day of the troubles, was a staunch Orange man and now his family has asked the Deputy First Minister not to pay his respects. His death was wrong, reprehensible and deserves utter condemnation, that however does not mean the situation and context in which he was killed doesn't deserve a full critical analysis out side talking about how great the man was and his apparent support for peace.

I feel this should be debated as this is the first funeral of the recent deaths that hasn't had a unified showing. As opposed the funeral of Stephen Carroll where senior SF figures joined government ministers, unionists and senior police officers to stand shoulder to shoulder with mourners at the funeral. If families are to be praised for their open arms and understanding, such as Davy Ervine's, when Adams embraced the wife of the late Mr.Ervine, then a political critique of this funeral is legitimate, without fear of emotional blackmail at raising the issue.
 

longmarch

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It's a non starter. When a family member is murdered then no one and I mean no one has any right to expect anything from the family.

It's a discussion that will only dig up the past with whataboutery. The other funerals happened to be Catholic funerals. SF were always going to be welcome.

We all need to keep our big noses out of other people's business when it comes to burying their loved ones.

I'm very pleased the Martin offered to attend and I'm very pleased at the dignity and respect shown by SF in the way they accepted the refusal. They fully understand the powers at play and they have behaved very well.

Others could learn a few things from them in relation to this
 

DT123

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Aug 31, 2011
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A large proportion of the "unionist" community ,see SF,no differently now,than they saw them at the height of the "troubles".The mask still regularly slips,we know that this is but the latest phase of the "struggle",the latest tactic in the "long game".

The murder of Mr Black ,was no different to the hundreds of murders carried out by "SF/IRA".It is pure hypocrisy for the likes of Gerry Kelly to condemn Mr Blacks murder,when he did exactly the same thing himself.

SF have a long way to go,to convince the likes of me,that they have the slightest interest in the well being of the unionist community in NI.Democracy dictates that we have to accept their political mandate,it doesn't say that we have to like them or believe a word they say.
 

purpledon

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Aug 23, 2011
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It's a non starter. When a family member is murdered then no one and I mean no one has any right to expect anything from the family.

It's a discussion that will only dig up the past with whataboutery. The other funerals happened to be Catholic funerals. SF were always going to be welcome.

We all need to keep our big noses out of other people's business when it comes to burying their loved ones.

I'm very pleased the Martin offered to attend and I'm very pleased at the dignity and respect shown by SF in the way they accepted the refusal. They fully understand the powers at play and they have behaved very well.

Others could learn a few things from them in relation to this
Didn't Jackie McDonald turn up at Michaela Hart's funeral uninvited and was warmly welcomed by both her father and husband. So much so, that he was moved to write about it. McDonald and the Hartes are at the opposite ends of the cultural and political spectrum. The Hartes of course being very different in that they were never involved in violence, unlike McDonald, yet Michaela met a very violent end.

By asking SF to stay away, were the Black family stating that they believed that somehow they were involved in the killing and does it also say to their catholic colleagues and neighbours to also stay away? And as a prison officer and a public servant, is it appropriate that the union jack be draped over his coffin?

As longmarch said, the others were catholic funerals with mixed attendances from the political spectrum and all were welcome. Black was a protestant and some were asked to say away.
 

purpledon

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Aug 23, 2011
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4,099
A large proportion of the "unionist" community ,see SF,no differently now,than they saw them at the height of the "troubles".The mask still regularly slips,we know that this is but the latest phase of the "struggle",the latest tactic in the "long game".

The murder of Mr Black ,was no different to the hundreds of murders carried out by "SF/IRA".It is pure hypocrisy for the likes of Gerry Kelly to condemn Mr Blacks murder,when he did exactly the same thing himself.

SF have a long way to go,to convince the likes of me,that they have the slightest interest in the well being of the unionist community in NI.Democracy dictates that we have to accept their political mandate,it doesn't say that we have to like them or believe a word they say.
And it's exactly the same in reverse. The CNR community see the UUP and DUP as the same as they ever did. The see their ties to the UDA and UVF and don't believe that they have been broken. Hell, they are on display every summer. They don't trust them and wont vote for them.
 

vivabrigada

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Nov 17, 2011
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The other funerals happened to be Catholic funerals. SF were always going to be welcome.
David Ervine had a catholic funeral?
I missed that.
 

Levellers

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I know we have different cultures on the island about funerals but this is clearly sectarian hatred that dictated no Taigs about the place.
 

RedCloud

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Can we expect Amnesty International to take up the shinner case to attend any funeral they wish ?
The 'human right' to hypocrisy,perhaps ?
 

RedCloud

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I know we have different cultures on the island about funerals but this is clearly sectarian hatred that dictated no Taigs about the place.
.....and so it begins......
 

vivabrigada

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Can we expect Amnesty International to take up the shinner case to attend any funeral they wish ?
The 'human right' to hypocrisy,perhaps ?
.....and so it begins......
You can't see it can you?:lol:
 

Iarmhi Gael

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Joined
May 2, 2007
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3,857
It's a non starter. When a family member is murdered then no one and I mean no one has any right to expect anything from the family.

It's a discussion that will only dig up the past with whataboutery. The other funerals happened to be Catholic funerals. SF were always going to be welcome.

We all need to keep our big noses out of other people's business when it comes to burying their loved ones.

I'm very pleased the Martin offered to attend and I'm very pleased at the dignity and respect shown by SF in the way they accepted the refusal. They fully understand the powers at play and they have behaved very well.

Others could learn a few things from them in relation to this

Who knows what happened with this Prison officier over the years he was in the prison service - a lot happened in those 25 years. What it does display is a deep divide within some elements of the NI community and SF no matter how hard they extend their hand will always aggreive some people.

Did not know this happened and saddened it did
 

Septic Frank

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O
Mr. Black served during the darkest day of the troubles, was a staunch Orange man and now his family has asked the Deputy First Minister not to pay his respects.
Martin comes from a rich tradition of murdering prison officers etc. The fact that this man's family didn't want crusty the clown at his funeral is perfectly understandable.
 
J

Johnny Boy

The other funerals happened to be Catholic funerals. SF were always going to be welcome.
How on earth could you possibly know that, particularly in the case of the Carroll family, considering that he served in the RUC prior to the GFA? The amount of baseless assumptions that people make about the other side is part of our collective malaise.
The family are entitled to stipulate whatever they wanted for the funeral, and maybe it would be simply better if everybody just turned a blind eye to it - however, if we're being honest about this, it was perhaps a bit undignified to add such an unnecessary sour note to the proceedings.
But there you go.
 

former wesleyan

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As I said on another thread the family had no problem with the Presidents aide de camp attending, who would have been a senior Army officer, nor had they a problem with the Minister of Defence attending.
 

theloner

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The murder of Mr Black ,was no different to the hundreds of murders carried out by "SF/IRA".It is pure hypocrisy for the likes of Gerry Kelly to condemn Mr Blacks murder,when he did exactly the same thing himself.
But by the same token, prison officers were also part of The Troubles and like the disbanded RUC was/is a very biased organisation. The fact that Mr.Black was an Orangeman and served almost thirty years in the NIPS and his family refused a SF representative at the man's funeral paints a picture.
 

Septic Frank

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But by the same token, prison officers were also part of The Troubles and like the disbanded RUC was/is a very biased organisation. The fact that Mr.Black was an Orangeman and served almost thirty years in the NIPS and his family refused a SF representative at the man's funeral paints a picture.
Of what? Are you saying he was a legitimate target in this illegitimate attempted conflict?
 

theloner

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Of what? Are you saying he was a legitimate target in this illegitimate attempted conflict?
His death was wrong, reprehensible and deserves utter condemnation, that however does not mean the situation and context in which he was killed doesn't deserve a full critical analysis out side talking about how great the man was and his apparent support for peace.
Or did you miss that in the OP?
 

Septic Frank

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Or did you miss that in the OP?
Fine. So what's your point? You're disappointed that Marty wasn't welcomed to the funeral? You're disappointed that some people are unable to forgive SF and invite them to their family funerals when one of their own is murdered by so called Republicans?

Get over it. Start a thread condemning the murder and discussing ways to prevent further murders rather than having a very vague and weak poke at the grieving family.
 

theloner

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Mar 24, 2011
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Get over it. Start a thread condemning the murder and discussing ways to prevent further murders rather than having a very vague and weak poke at the grieving family.
If families are to be praised for their open arms and understanding, such as Davy Ervine's, when Adams embraced the wife of the late Mr.Ervine, then a political critique of this funeral is legitimate, without fear of emotional blackmail at raising the issue.
You must have missed this part too.
 
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