Some people are so ignorant! (about energy)

JCSkinner

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If his comments ring true to you, then why can't either of you supply any hard and fast demonstrable evidence to support the assertion that Irish people are ignorant about energy usage, then?
If you're a professional with an interest in the area, you should have such information readily to hand.
 


Bakunin

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JCSkinner said:
If his comments ring true to you, then why can't either of you supply any hard and fast demonstrable evidence to support the assertion that Irish people are ignorant about energy usage, then?
If you're a professional with an interest in the area, you should have such information readily to hand.
See, now I know you're a trolling gobshite. I've already said that my interest is non-professional. So instead of getting a big hard-on between your ears about ''hard and fast evidence'', why don't you go back to the basics... ie have the courtesy to read other people's posts. Especially when addressed to you.

Your mate Dave could have told you that.

I'm finished with this. Other people will make up their own minds, but I think you've made a show of yourself.
 

JCSkinner

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I've read the posts. Scoured them, in fact, for anything resembling evidence. There isn't any. I've asked for some and got dog's abuse from twats like you who are incapable of supporting the (itself extremely ignorant) assertion that Irish people are ignorant about energy use.
Your instant response to abuse indicates that you have no such evidence. You keep promising to go away (one hopes to either find some evidence that pertains to the assertion or else the humility to admit you have none) and yet you don't. What's stopping you?
 

Bakunin

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[quote="JCSkinner"]I've read the posts. Scoured them, in fact, for anything resembling evidence.

You're a liar. You haven't read them properly at all. There's plenty of evidence of that, unhappily for you.

like you who are incapable of supporting the (itself extremely ignorant) assertion that Irish people are ignorant about energy use.


If it offends you that we must describe the Irish people in those less than flattering terms... tough. Anyway, nobody said all. So less of the sloppy use of language, thanks.

What is being said (I repeat myself for you) is that there is a pitiful lack of knowledge. You typify it. Even when there is knowledge, much of the time there is conservatism and resistance to change - that may be partly for economic reasons, especially now. But it is not the only reason.

I'm giving you the evidence of my eyes and ears. And that's good enough for anyone who wants to have a genuine conversation. Sane people can't legislate for smartarses like you.

Find the evidence for yourself. Ask everyone you meet for a week the questions that I put to you - you will see what I mean. Just do it. You might even learn something.

You are the evidence you seek. You don't have a clue, having been asked twice. You prove the point. Despite the government campaigns you talked about yourself.

YOU ARE THE EVIDENCE.
 

Bakunin

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JCSkinner said:
Oh, hi!
You're back!
Good. Got any evidence that Irish people are ignorant about energy use for me? No?
Didn't think so, spoofer.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

You have a week to come up with the results of that assignment I gave you. Otherwise people will think you were never really interested in the issue.

Ask Dave if he'll help you with the reading and comprehension bits.
 

JCSkinner

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Let me walk you through this slowly.
What I know personally is not relevant. I am an individual, not the nation.
Similarly, the OP's experiences with draught excluders is not relevant. It's not evidence of anything.
Equally with any similar turgid anecdotes you might be compelled to share from your non-professional experience.
I've had a quarter century of formal education. I don't do homework anymore.
You need to support your argument with evidence for it to be taken seriously, son. That's how it's done in here. Go get some facts and present them, then we'll discuss them.
 

Bakunin

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JCSkinner said:
What I know personally is not relevant.

Why are you so unrepresentative, or different ? You probably are, but not in the way you think :lol:

I am an individual, not the nation.

But neither I nor the OP referred to ''the nation'' ! We referred to our experiences of dealing with a representative enough sampling of everyday life. That is perfectly valid. And if you don't like it... go to another thread. So you're getting all worked up about nothing, all along aren't you ? Your silly mock horror that anyone could be so mean about the
Irish people. Silly you.


Similarly, the OP's experiences with draught excluders is not relevant. It's not evidence of anything.


It's his experience, and was only offered as that. IF that's not good enough for you, offer evidence to the contrary. Which you won't.

Equally with any similar turgid anecdotes you might be compelled to share from your non-professional experience.

But which you're not compelled to read.


I've had a quarter century of formal education.


Big wows. It hasn't done you any good has it ? But show us the evidence anyway.


You need to support your argument with evidence for it to be taken seriously, son. :lol:

That's where you lost it, old man.

EDIT - By the way, a fundamental rule of evidence is this - don't go beyond what the sources tell you. It's a weakness of yours that I've spotted.
 

JCSkinner

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Any individual is an unrepresentative sample. That's basic statistics.
The assertion is that a significant number of the Irish nation are entirely ignorant about energy use. If it's true, it ought to be easy to provide evidence.
Hearsay is not evidence, visiting your mate's gaff and not seeing a draught excluder is not evidence, anecdote in general is not evidence. So no, what you've offered is not valid in support of the assertion that was made.
One great benefit of education is learning the scientific method. You test an assertion to ascertain if it is true.
I'm testing. And frankly, you and the OP are coming up with a big zero.
If you had any sense, you'd go hit google or dig out some statistics in support of your position, if those facts exist.
Or you'd come clean and admit that they don't exist and the original assertion was utterly overstated.
But I doubt you have that sense, given your irrational belligerence.
I suggest you perhaps try some formal education. It might work wonders for your comprehension of what is and isn't a fact.
 

Bakunin

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The assertion is that a significant number of the Irish nation are entirely ignorant about energy use. If it's true, it ought to be easy to provide evidence.

But it must be equally true, by your own logic, that the opposite is the case. So you could settle it to your own satisfaction by offering the counter-evidence. Please do so. A couple of minutes on Google should suffice.

Of course it all depends on whether any formal research has been done. And an easy hypothesis doesn't guarantee that it has actually been tested. So again, your conclusion may be unwarranted and go beyond what you can know.

Hearsay is not evidence, visiting your mate's gaff and not seeing a draught excluder is not evidence, anecdote in general is not evidence. So no, what you've offered is not valid in support of the assertion that was made.

Well, if the standard of the discussion wasn't to your standard, why didn't you put forward a counter argument, or else log off ? Your input isn't that important you know.

One great benefit of education is learning the scientific method. You test an assertion to ascertain if it is true.

Yes, I discovered that at Oxford when I took the Special Subject on the History of Science in the Seventeenth Century. The roots of the modern Scientific Method, don't you know.

Interesting things to say about social status and the manufacturing of truth. Boyle, Hooke, Leeuwenhoek to give but three examples.

I'm testing.

You're very testing, that is correct.

If you had any sense, you'd go hit google or dig out some statistics in support of your position, if those facts exist.


But of course, one of your first positions was that if those statistics don't exist, then the assertion itself is false. What august institution of learning filled your head with that nonsense ? :lol: You said it baby...


Or you'd come clean and admit that they don't exist and the original assertion was utterly overstated.

Nope, I'm emphatically stating that in conversations I have all the time with workmates, friends, family - there is a serious lack of widespread knowledge. I include in that an Electrical Engineer, a Science teacher, and numerous tradesmen unfortunately. So a spectrum.

By the way - we are talking here about any kind of knowledge of hydro/wind/solar/PV/harvesting systems and techniques - never mind the mundanities of CFL, U-values and so on.

It's not just some vague idea that it's all bad for the polar bears, right ? Cos even you know that.

But I doubt you have that sense, given your irrational belligerence.

Eh, go back to your own first offerings.

I suggest you perhaps try some formal education. It might work wonders for your comprehension of what is and isn't a fact.[/quote]

Oh dear. Highlight of your life, the old Polytechnic, was it ? It's really pompous you know. Are you the type who actually asks people whether they got a 2:1 or a 2:2 ? Not interesting.

SO anyway, you've made an assertion about all your years of formal education. Now I want proof dammit ! Evidence please.
 

JCSkinner

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I'll show you my degrees when you produce verifiable factual evidence to support your assertion.
We're going in circles here. Chats with your friends are anecdote not evidence.
Go get the evidence. If it exists.
 

Bakunin

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I'll show you my degrees when you produce verifiable factual evidence to support your assertion.
We're going in circles here. Chats with your friends are anecdote not evidence.
Go get the evidence. If it exists


Let's see your degrees now. Go get them. Or is it a bluff because you know that a formal treatise doesn't exist. And why should it ?

If it doesn't exist, you will say that the hypothesis is untrue. A ridiculous assertion.

Lets see the papers, Skinner.

If they exist, of course.
 

Bakunin

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I'll show you my degrees when you produce verifiable factual evidence to support your assertion.
We're going in circles here. Chats with your friends are anecdote not evidence.
Go get the evidence. If it exists


Let's see your degrees now. Go get them. Or is it a bluff because you know that a formal treatise doesn't exist. And why should it ?

If it doesn't exist, you will say that the hypothesis is untrue. A ridiculous assertion.

Lets see the papers Skinner. You've tried to assert some pompous superiority over me with all of that, so I think your credibility deserves a little examining here.
 

JCSkinner

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You're really not benefiting your argument much at all.
This is a politics website. About 50% of the posters are in college in youth wings of parties. I'd guess another third have done their college. It's possibly, outside of academic discussion boards, got the highest average educated posters of any internet site on the island. (Which doesn't bode that well for the country given the standard of some of the discourse, but nevertheless...)
Check the endless threads on youth wing politics in colleges, USI elections, people researching stuff for their masters and doctorates.
The chances are better than good that you could throw a dart at a list of the registered members and hit a graduate on this site.
If it were possible or constructive for me to show you my degrees, I would. But frankly, you're a moron who I've no wish to identify myself to.
I don't know what you're looking for treatises for. Any evidence will do. Any examples of research into Irish knowledge of energy use which demonstrates that a sizeable proportion of Irish people are entirely ignorant is sufficient.
People were quite dismissive earlier about Government awareness campaigns into energy usage issues. But those things get monitored and analysed by the Departments which issue them. So there are statistics available come Monday morning.
Of course by then, you'll have slunk off back to your bedshit to gripe and moan at the wall about the nasty man on the interweb who was all superior to you because he was all edumacated.
 

Bakunin

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If it were possible or constructive for me to show you my degrees, I would.

But you said it was possible. You said ''I'll show you my degrees when you produce verifiable factual evidence to support your assertion''.

You said that. Now you're saying it's not possible ? Sorry pal, but if you can't produce the evidence, then it doesn't exist, right ? Twenty five years and you have nothing to show for all this education ? And you want to chastise others for their attitude to evidence ?

You're Walter Mitty, or worse, Bertie Ahearn. I don't think being the janitor qualifies you to say you've been to college matey :lol: .


Of course by then, you'll have slunk off back to your bedshit to gripe and moan at the wall about the nasty man on the interweb who was all superior to you because he was all edumacated.


Wow. The mask is slipped. Anyway Skinner, that superior man is not you, if for no other reason than that you would think, and actually would say that. But what an obnoxious self-regard you have.

And what a revealing statement about what makes you tick on this site.

You're not clever at all - you're a one-trick pony on here, and it's a nasty trick. Full of self-importance, hijacking threads with some inflated sense of your own cleverness, badgering people on issues you have no intrinsic interest in. Get a life, you sad disappointed little man.

You have previous on this, sunshine - wanna bet I can get the evidence ?


And - for the last time, let's be clear. It isn't about the Polar Bears, or global warming ok ? It's about technical and/or economic paybacks, and how widespread understanding of that is. Which you're not qualified to comment on. But when you get the Department statistics for that on Monday, PUT THEM UP. Or SHUT UP. No bullshitting now.
 

JCSkinner

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You're still languishing under the delusion that it's my responsibility to demonstrate the negative. On the contrary it's up to the OP, and those who support his assertion like you, to support it with the evidence.
I don't doubt I can get some data from the Department, and I suspect that it will support the contrary to what the OP believes. I suspect it will illustrate an ever-growing knowledge and awareness of energy use issues among Irish people.
This is why you and the OP are utterly allergic to debating this issue on factual evidence. Because like me you suspect it won't support your position.
It's entirely possible for me to produce my qualifications. But even my employer didn't ask for them, and I've absolutely no desire to identify myself to someone frothing at the mouth on a keyboard somewhere. It'd be like posting my address on www.pleasestalkmetodeath.com, ffs.
I offered to do so if you could produce evidence to support your assertion. But you haven't, and increasingly it looks like you can't.
It also appears that your monomania precludes against detecting a mild dose of satire. I don't consider myself superior to any human being. But I can see you smarting and hurting and getting all hung up about formal education.
I note with sadness that you didn't riposte with mention of your own educational background. I do suggest you go get one.
 

Bakunin

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You're still languishing under the delusion that it's my responsibility to demonstrate the negative. On the contrary it's up to the OP, and those who support his assertion like you, to support it with the evidence.

It's not your responsibility, and no-one said it was. But it would put the thing to bed one way or another. And is what sensible people would do. You just prefer to throw your weight around here, which you're not qualified to do. It's telling. You are after all, angry... all the time.

Now - a quick look at a dictionary tells us that EVIDENCE may be defined by -

3. Law. data presented to a court or jury in proof of the facts in issue and which may include the testimony of witnesses, records, documents, or objects.

That is good enough for a discussion on here. Nobody on trial, nobody going to jail. So you've been barking up the wrong tree all along. Unless, and I wouldn't rule this out... you have a degree in re-writing dictionaries to fit into your own argumentative little head.

I don't doubt I can get some data from the Department, and I suspect that it will support the contrary to what the OP believes. I suspect it will illustrate an ever-growing knowledge and awareness of energy use issues among Irish people.

You're a slippery little git, and no mistake. 'Ever-growing knowledge and awareness of energy use'' isn't even remotely what this is about. We defined this hours ago - it's about even a casual conversational knowledge of the options, and a willingness to consider them.

After all, you can't do it, and you've been to school for twenty-five years. And by your own account, you're superior to me.

Get the data on that. And don't waste my time with this phoney crap about ''awareness''. Wishy-washy nonsense. The type that Government departments excel in dazzling wannabe social commentators like you with.

You can't prove your case, and I've offered evidence of mine.

And on the subject of awareness, and being people being resistant to change, despite government campaigns, who said this...

8. Big open plan houses are expensive to heat in a rising oil market. So is driving a large family saloon. So why did I only start doing both this year? ?

Answer - YOU DID. In your ''anger-fuelled, media savvy, politically astute assault on contemporary Ireland'' :lol: :lol: :lol:

You're some can of pish, you really are.
 

JCSkinner

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Oh, please. I'm crying with laughter here.
Go get some evidence to support your position. Seriously, open up that dictionary of yours and look up 'anecdote'. You'll see it's not evidence.
Or equally, familiarise yourself with how debate is conducted on this site, or in the media, or in parliament. The rules are quite simple: if you make a generalised assertion like 'Irish people are ignorant about energy use', then if you don't supply supporting data, people will ask you to support it.
The reason for this is that otherwise people could go around making all sorts of nonsensical allegations without evidence, and thereby get themselves and the site sued.
So, I've asked for evidence. There isn't any, four pages in. What there is, is a lot of pretty out-there craziness from you, in terms of irrational personal abuse, and confused roaring that the frankly surreal anecdotes about draught excluders and gnomic references about people you meet in your non-profession amounts to proof of the original assertion.
Well, it doesn't. And I suspect you know that already. Shouting and insulting won't make a case for you. Only some hard and fast evidence will do that.
So go get some, or shut up and go away. Because you are frankly very tedious, not to mention more than a little creepy with your online stalking. Oh, and I have your IP logged, just so's you know.
 

Bakunin

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if you make a generalised assertion like 'Irish people are ignorant about energy use', then if you don't supply supporting data, people will ask you to support it.


1. The thread title is SOME PEOPLE... -

and the OP said - I'm becoming more and more amazed as time goes on at the sheer ignorance of many people toward energy costs.

Not all.

2. Let's see your ''supporting data'' for the following claims you made on this thread -

People won't buy your stuff. According to you, that's their fault. According to me, it's yours.

Now back that up.

I believe you're being disingenuous


Oh - you believe. Different rules for you is it ? You pretentious hypocrite.

His 'evidence' that Irish people know nothing about energy conservation was that they don't buy his panels

Back that up. Evidence please. Not your ''belief'', mind.

His evidence, anecdotal as you call it, doesn't even support his assertion. His pals don't have draught excluders when he visits. So what? That means the country is ignorant about energy usage?


Where was that said ? Evidence please ?

The assertion is that a significant number of the Irish nation are entirely ignorant about energy use.


Wrong wrong wrong. It is that there are far too few people conversant with the basics, and that even a lot of people who are aware, do not act on that.

Now, despite your waffle, testimony IS evidence. So, on this thread alone we've heard from -

1. the OP
2. rocky raccoon, who said - There's definitely a problem with the introduction of energy savings policies that may highlight a general ignorance on the populace's understanding but may also highlight the way in which energy efficiency had been talked about by politicians and the media
3. EoinMn - Loads of people are quite anti-insulation and I don't know why, but it is changing.
I've heard that loads of builders didn't insulate houses to the minimum regulated standard in order to 'save money'. And they were doing this with the full approval of the clients they were building for. And many thought they were being cute-hoors, rebelling against the government and getting away with it.
But I think the attitude is changing.

Everyone knows that energy saving bulbs and attic insulation pay for themselves and still there is a reluctance to invest.
4. solair - People are generally quite clueless about energy conservation, I would agree wholeheartedly on that point. It's not just that they think it's 'snakeoil', it's that they simply do not have any clue what it's all about.Some people are ignorant, undoubtly, but many are confused.
5. Niamh'sfriend - I have been recycling paper and glass for over two decades, .....I'm not saying I am a saint, but I have been *aware* for a long time, and have tried to do my bit, however small. However, I do less now than I ever did, and that's because I am bombarded by comflicting evidence, to the point where I don't know what is best.

The reason for this is that otherwise people could go around making all sorts of nonsensical allegations without evidence, and thereby get themselves and the site sued.


Thanks. But who the f*** is going to sue anyone for anything said on this thread ? And who asked you to be the logic police ? Self-important twerp.

you are frankly very tedious, not to mention more than a little creepy with your online stalking. Oh, and I have your IP logged, just so's you know.

Listen, I couldn't give a fiddler's what or who you log. Is your ego too big to hit the ''Ignore'' function ?

Your allegation of online stalking ? Well, Dave says it's ok to question what anyone else writes ( ;) ) here. If you're uncomfortable with that on a public forum, then just stick with your dull blog
 


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