Standards steadily falling in Irish universities. Will degrees of some become worthless?

Patslatt1

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See https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/education/nursing-programmes-shine-but-other-departments-fall-in-global-university-tables-36656424.html
https://www.topuniversities.com/university-rankings/world-university-rankings/2018

High standards in universities require a substantial contribution to university finances from student fees. That's because governments generally fail to prioritise university education compared to politically attractive spending such as hospitals, public sector pay and old age pensions. The continuing drop in government subsidies per student is showing up in falling rankings in the global QS university rankings as summarised below.

UC Dublin / UC Cork / UC Galway / Trinity College / Dublin City U / U of Limerick / Maynooth U
Global Ranking 168 UCD/ 283 UCC/ 243 UCG/ 88 TC/ 391 DCU/ (501 to 550)UL/ (701 to 750)MU
% Ch since 2012 -20% -57% +18 -24% -20% -2% -36%
Employer Reputation 69% 48% 45% 69% 46% 38% -

Only Galway has a better ranking than in 2012 and Limerick has stabilised. Cork has plunged 57%, alarming for such an important university. A majority of employers aren't happy with the quality of graduates in Limerick, Galway, DCU and Cork. Continuation of these trends could make Irish degrees worthless.
 
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General Urko

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Essentially, many degree now are the equivalent of having the Inter Cert back in the 80s!
 

Dan_Murphy

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Degrees are all about economic signalling, moving you up the hierarchy of employable people and pushing everyone else down. They haven't been about education for a long time, though some might still cling to that idea.

The more worthless they are education wise, the worse you'll look for not having a degree, only increasing demand.

With that in mind, college degrees will never be worthless so long as HR departments exist.
 

Patslatt1

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Degrees are all about economic signalling, moving you up the hierarchy of employable people and pushing everyone else down. They haven't been about education for a long time, though some might still cling to that idea.

The more worthless they are education wise, the worse you'll look for not having a degree, only increasing demand.

With that in mind, college degrees will never be worthless so long as HR departments exist.
The employer satisfaction figures in the table show scepticism towards degrees.
 

Dan_Murphy

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The employer satisfaction figures in the table show scepticism towards degrees.
Doesn't matter, you underestimate just how retarded most HR staff really are. It'd require a colossal change in how hiring processes work for having a degree to disappear from the resume filters.
 

amist4

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See https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/education/nursing-programmes-shine-but-other-departments-fall-in-global-university-tables-36656424.html
https://www.topuniversities.com/university-rankings/world-university-rankings/2018

High standards in universities require a substantial contribution to university finances from student fees. That's because governments generally fail to prioritise university education compared to politically attractive spending such as hospitals, public sector pay and old age pensions. The continuing drop in government subsidies per student is showing up in falling rankings in the global QS university rankings as summarised below.

UC Dublin / UC Cork / UC Galway / Trinity College / Dublin City U / U of Limerick / Maynooth U
Global Ranking 168 UCD/ 283 UCC/ 243 UCG/ 88 TC/ 391 DCU/ (501 to 550)UL/ (701 to 750)MU
% Ch since 2012 -20% -57% +18 -24% -20% -2% -36%
Employer Reputation 69% 48% 45% 69% 46% 38% -

Only Galway has a better ranking than in 2012 and Limerick has stabilised. Cork has plunged 57%, alarming for such an important university. A majority of employers aren't happy with the quality of graduates in Limerick, Galway, DCU and Cork. Continuation of these trends could make Irish degrees worthless.
Gender bender toilets should get the ball rolling.
 

Patslatt1

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Doesn't matter, you underestimate just how retarded most HR staff really are. It'd require a colossal change in how hiring processes work for having a degree to disappear from the resume filters.
The filter is weak. Employers put a lot of faith on the interview.

Traditionally, HR used to be a dead end in business and now it is only valued for its ability to cope with employment regulations.
 

Dame_Enda

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The education system is not sufficiently geared to creating the workers of the future.
 

fergal1790

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When the government done away with the "Group Cert" years ago it strarted a dumbing down of the standard of education in all schools to ensure that as many students as possible could get access to college places, At the time they forgot that many students were not suited to college and needed a more technical education in the form of apprenticeships.

then more recently the standards in Primary schools are steadily dropping because teachers are having to spend so much more time with "non-English speaking" students and those with "special needs". This leads to a lowering of the class standard and this leads to the same situation as we see in the UK and USA where state schools are the worst.
 

rhetorician

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I'm not sure anyone really places that much credibility in QS - the "academic reputation" measure counts for a lot and this really just depends on who you suggest, and who responds. The things to look for are the relatively "hard" data (which doesn't count for much in QS) - citations, impact, staff student ratio. THES is much more rigorous - and we do even less well there - but again, context is important - who are the comparator institutions in the same bands?
 

Analyzer

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Analyzer

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The Leaving Cert has been made easier.

There are considerable numbers at college doing course that end in the word "studies".

Victor Davis Hanson has a stinging critique of such courses, and the pyjama boy aristocracy that it generates, in the US. I do not think we are yet as dumbed down as the US third level sector - but Belfield is leading the charge to attain that objective.

The Denis O'Brien Science Centre in UCD - can somebody please tell me what Denis O'Brien every did for science ?
 

General Urko

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The Leaving Cert has been made easier.

There are considerable numbers at college doing course that end in the word "studies".

Victor Davis Hanson has a stinging critique of such courses, and the pyjama boy aristocracy that it generates, in the US. I do not think we are yet as dumbed down as the US third level sector - but Belfield is leading the charge to attain that objective.

The Denis O'Brien Science Centre in UCD - can somebody please tell me what Denis O'Brien every did for science ?
I think also the obvious dumbing down has been more beneficial paradoxically to the middle classes than working classes!
The imbeciles of the middle classes wouldn't be able to get near a university in the 80s so had to go to The UK, now they can stay here to get paper into their hand to enable them to gobshyte in the workplace!:mad:
 

Analyzer

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I think also the obvious dumbing down has been more beneficial paradoxically to the middle classes than working classes!
The imbeciles of the middle classes wouldn't be able to get near a university in the 80s so had to go to The UK, now they can stay here to get paper into their hand to enable them to gobshyte in the workplace!:mad:
Well, it depends on what we term middle class. Using the US definition, you get a lot of really hard working students.

Using the 19th century UK definition, you get Deefers, who would not work up a sweat if they were stuck in a sauna.
 

PC Principle

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shame all our nurses are leaving. great opportunity for Indian and Philippino nurses to come here though.
Plus they are way hotter.

Win-win.
 

PC Principle

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Well, it depends on what we term middle class. Using the US definition, you get a lot of really hard working students.

Using the 19th century UK definition, you get Deefers, who would not work up a sweat if they were stuck in a sauna.
Its hilarious in New York when you come across deefers, they stand out as much as the track suit wearing D1 mob.

They think they are all classy, sophisticated and minted as soon as they smell the air. Little do they know that they are low grade mutton in comparison to real people with actual money minus the two inch layer of orange makeup.

Goes for the guys too....with their satchels.
 

The Rahenyite

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There's a problem in this country in that too many people go to college and too many people have degrees. You end up being one small fish and in a big giant pond and need a masters or doctorate to stand out from the crowd. We need to promote work place apprenticeships and crafts a lot more. Speaking as someone who dropped out of college four times and is now in middle management tipping on 30 college is not for everyone.
 


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