Stardust Tragedy

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Sidewinder said:
bboruimhe said:
"Deliberate act ?? " You don't get it. The obstruction of the emergency exits was not a deliberate attempt to stop people from getting out. No-one suggests that. Why in the name of God would the owners do that?
He's just muddying the waters with semantics, nitpicking, deliberate misdirections, false rabbit trails, strawmen and outright meaningless spoofery. Standard FF practice when called on their misdeeds. Those boyos could be caught in a crowd, bloody knife in hand standing over a dead body, and spin it out into 37 pages of wankology and gibberish. Arguing with them is like being tangled up in a massive, endless spider web of confusion, barefaced lies, and stunning leaps of illogic.
Nope its asking the questions that the families should be asking.

If the Inquiry stays the same and finds no one responsible what then ? A 25 year campaign has achieved what ?
 


HanleyS

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odie1kanobe said:
Nope its asking the questions that the families should be asking.

If the Inquiry stays the same and finds no one responsible what then ? A 25 year campaign has achieved what ?
It doesn't matter once they get a fair inquiry. That's what they will have achieved. Whether that's sufficient for them or not is another question entirely. They deserve a fair inquiry.
 

thetruth

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The outcome of a new enquiry would not come up with the same result. Too much new evidence has come to light.

Haughey was in charge at the time, Ray Burke was minister for the environment, Bertie Ahern was chief whip and Kevin Noland (who resigned in support of Haughey during the 'arms crisis') had coffee every morning with Patrick Butterly.

Butterly was a staunch Fianna Fail supporter who had warnings given to him previously about the fire hazzards on his premises and did nothing about them.

Dublin City Council was in dire straights financially at the time and for the victims of the fire to have grounds to sue would have been disasterous. Only the verdict from the original enquiry, 'Probable Arson' got them off the hook.
Even the Guards at the time stated that arson was highly unlikely.

Looking at the new evidence and reading between the lines there is no wonder Ahern has done everything he could to delay or avoid a new tribunal.

The whole thing stinks to high heaven.
 

constitutionus

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thetruth said:
The outcome of a new enquiry would not come up with the same result. Too much new evidence has come to light.

Haughey was in charge at the time, Ray Burke was minister for the environment, Bertie Ahern was chief whip and Kevin Noland (who resigned in support of Haughey during the 'arms crisis') had coffee every morning with Patrick Butterly.

Butterly was a staunch Fianna Fail supporter who had warnings given to him previously about the fire hazzards on his premises and did nothing about them.

Dublin City Council was in dire straights financially at the time and for the victims of the fire to have grounds to sue would have been disasterous. Only the verdict from the original enquiry, 'Probable Arson' got them off the hook.
Even the Guards at the time stated that arson was highly unlikely.

Looking at the new evidence and reading between the lines there is no wonder Ahern has done everything he could to delay or avoid a new tribunal.

The whole thing stinks to high heaven.
exactly, this was a denial of justice to protect a business man by his political cronies. pure and simple. whats a couple of dead northsiders to these cnunts.

like the dublin and monaghan bombings NONE of these feckers wants the truth coming out. not untill everylast one of em is six foot under.

nobody with a wit of intelligence see this as anything other than a filthy cover up.
 

The Earl of Desmond

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Why did Richard Bruton not help the families when he was a government minister? Why do they focus all their energy on Fianna Fáil and not get a committment from FG that when it is back in government that it will release all the files related to it and will get to the bottom of it once and for all or does FG have something to hide too?

We know what FF has to hide (the links between CJH and the Buckley's) but what about FG? I'm a former FG member in DNC and I've never heard even the slightest hint of any FG reason to fear a full inquiry?
 

thetruth

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Before the last general election Enda Kenny, Rat Rabbitte and all the independent Tds were unanimous in supporting a new enquiry, with Pat Rabbitte stating that the Butterlys should probably be tried for corporate manslaughter.

The only fly in the ointment has been Ahern.
 

code twinkle

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morryah said:
thetruth said:
corporate manslaughter.

? is that even a law?
as far as i know its only at Bill stage - might well have come in by the time an enquiry is set up tho...

Ahern definitely had a political agenda blocking this - but does anyone know Cowen's likely position?
 

HanleyS

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code twinkle said:
as far as i know its only at Bill stage - might well have come in by the time an enquiry is set up tho...

Ahern definitely had a political agenda blocking this - but does anyone know Cowen's likely position?
I would think Cowen is far enough removed from the Haughey/Ahern circle. I hope so anyway, otherwise we have problems.
 

constitutionus

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wasnt that supposed to be brought in ages ago to protect construction workers from shabby companies that scrimped on the health and saftey laws?

far as i know theyre STILL the biggest sector for deaths on the job.
 

Sidewinder

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The Earl of Desmond said:
Why did Richard Bruton not help the families when he was a government minister? Why do they focus all their energy on Fianna Fáil and not get a committment from FG that when it is back in government that it will release all the files related to it and will get to the bottom of it once and for all or does FG have something to hide too?

We know what FF has to hide (the links between CJH and the Buckley's) but what about FG? I'm a former FG member in DNC and I've never heard even the slightest hint of any FG reason to fear a full inquiry?
Probably as simple as this: if there is a Stardust enquiry then the clamour for a proper Dublin/Monaghan enquiry will get very loud (more dead Northsiders denied justice), and FG/Lab really don't want that can of worms opened!
 

HanleyS

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Sidewinder said:
Probably as simple as this: if there is a Stardust enquiry then the clamour for a proper Dublin/Monaghan enquiry will get very loud (more dead Northsiders denied justice), and FG/Lab really don't want that can of worms opened!
It's not just dead Northsiders who are victim to this kind of injustice. Ask the family of Brian Murphy and Brian Rossiter.
 

morryah

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code twinkle said:
morryah said:
thetruth said:
corporate manslaughter.

? is that even a law?
as far as i know its only at Bill stage - might well have come in by the time an enquiry is set up tho...
it's hardly going to be retroactive.

what a stupid comment by rabitte. hardly surprising though.
 

thetruth

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Lets end this topic here....
All those in favour of a real, honest enquiry say aye...

all those against ..... look again at the evidence and then vote 'No'

Then everyone who had another look at the evidence vote 'yes'

Please vote, it is important.
 

HanleyS

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I'm in favour of a new inquiry. I think you should leave the thread open though.

How did the families get on in their meeting with Kenny yesterday?
 

flyer

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The disaster was a tragedy for many people. The first investigation clearly had flaws and there should be a new investigation to both help the families come to terms with the event and allow anyone found responsible to be brought to some form of justice as a lesson to others.

However where are these wild paranoid dillusions coming from that Bertie Ahern and Fianna Fail are in some way covering up what really happened. The only way a new tribunal will find some wrong doing by Ahern is if Alan Mahon is appointed to head it up.
 

HanleyS

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flyer said:
However where are these wild paranoid dillusions coming from that Bertie Ahern and Fianna Fail are in some way covering up what really happened. The only way a new tribunal will find some wrong doing by Ahern is if Alan Mahon is appointed to head it up.
There's no doubt that the Butterly family are heavily involved with Fianna Fail. Such 'wild paranoid delusions' are not without basis or precedent.
 

code twinkle

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Sidewinder said:
The Earl of Desmond said:
Why did Richard Bruton not help the families when he was a government minister? Why do they focus all their energy on Fianna Fáil and not get a committment from FG that when it is back in government that it will release all the files related to it and will get to the bottom of it once and for all or does FG have something to hide too?

We know what FF has to hide (the links between CJH and the Buckley's) but what about FG? I'm a former FG member in DNC and I've never heard even the slightest hint of any FG reason to fear a full inquiry?
Probably as simple as this: if there is a Stardust enquiry then the clamour for a proper Dublin/Monaghan enquiry will get very loud (more dead Northsiders denied justice), and FG/Lab really don't want that can of worms opened!
Are you sure?
 

HanleyS

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Finian McGrath seems to be suggesting he has secured a new investigator for the families from the Taoiseach. From which Taoiseach is not clear.

BreakingNews.ie said:
Independent TD Finian McGrath says he expects the Government to appoint a new independent investigator for the second Stardust inquiry in the coming days.

Mr McGrath, a TD in Dublin North Central, says the Stardust Victims Committee will receive a letter from the Taoiseach's department to that effect within the next two days.

The committee withdrew its support from the independent inquiry in March after it emerged that the appointed investigator had previously represented Gardai as a solicitor.
 
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thetruth said:
The outcome of a new enquiry would not come up with the same result. Too much new evidence has come to light.

Haughey was in charge at the time, Ray Burke was minister for the environment, Bertie Ahern was chief whip and Kevin Noland (who resigned in support of Haughey during the 'arms crisis') had coffee every morning with Patrick Butterly.

Butterly was a staunch Fianna Fail supporter who had warnings given to him previously about the fire hazzards on his premises and did nothing about them.

Dublin City Council was in dire straights financially at the time and for the victims of the fire to have grounds to sue would have been disasterous. Only the verdict from the original enquiry, 'Probable Arson' got them off the hook.
Even the Guards at the time stated that arson was highly unlikely.

Looking at the new evidence and reading between the lines there is no wonder Ahern has done everything he could to delay or avoid a new tribunal.

The whole thing stinks to high heaven.
Stardust Tribunal reported in Nov 1991 during the term of office of 1 Garret Fitzgerald.
 


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