Stop blaming the electorate

[farnaby]

I'm sick of every thread wishing justice against the perpetrators of this crisis descending into knee-jerk blame-the-voter responses. Those who insist on blaming the electorate, please consider:

- Far less than half the country voted FF/PD in 2007
- Those who did vote FF voted for them to protect and improve the economy - FF failed miserably
- Our political system encourages voters to vote for locals to fill the backbenches and only gives them the choice of such local reps. National policy is a secondary consideration
- FF have misled and dissembled all through their time in government, and many fell for it out of ignorance rather than malice
- FF support has plummeted - 80% of the electorate are against them now. In fact you could almost say that much of their remaining support consists of those to blame for the crisis and those who FF are protecting from its effects...

In other words, in 2007 the electorate as a whole didn't vote for how the country is being run; many of those who voted FF in 2007 would not now with hindsight; our political system is chronically inadequate and no voter can change that at present.

If FF do well in the next GE then significant blame lies squarely at the electorate's feet (I may well leave the country if that happens). But until then let's hold FF and their allies to account.

 

[Gimpanzee]

- Far less than half the country voted FF/PD in 2007

The ones that didn't vote are only slightly less culpable than the ones who voted ff/pd

Those who did vote FF voted for them to protect and improve the economy - FF failed miserably

Gulibility is no excuse.

Our political system encourages voters to vote for locals to fill the backbenches and only gives them the choice of such local reps. National policy is a secondary consideration

No excuse for putting FF back in

FF have misled and dissembled all through their time in government, and many fell for it out of ignorance rather than malice

Ignorance of the recent past is no excuse. Previous FF governments in the 70's 80's and 90's all provided plenty evidence of the threat FF posed.

FF support has plummeted - 80% of the electorate are against them now. In fact you could almost say that much of their remaining support consists of those to blame for the crisis and those who FF are protecting from its effects...

In other words, in 2007 the electorate as a whole didn't vote for how the country is being run; many of those who voted FF in 2007 would not now with hindsight; our political system is chronically inadequate and no voter can change that at present.

Foresight wasn't required in 2007, or 2002 for that matter. Paying attention to the recent past should have been enough.

If FF do well in the next GE then significant blame lies squarely at the electorate's feet (I may well leave the country if that happens). But until then let's hold FF and their allies to account.

Even if the brand FF is damaged, watch the same calibre of politicians being elected under other labels.

 

[owedtojoy]

I'm sick of every thread wishing justice against the perpetrators of this crisis descending into knee-jerk blame-the-voter responses. Those who insist on blaming the electorate, please consider:

- Far less than half the country voted FF/PD in 2007
- Those who did vote FF voted for them to protect and improve the economy - FF failed miserably
- Our political system encourages voters to vote for locals to fill the backbenches and only gives them the choice of such local reps. National policy is a secondary consideration
- FF have misled and dissembled all through their time in government, and many fell for it out of ignorance rather than malice
- FF support has plummeted - 80% of the electorate are against them now. In fact you could almost say that much of their remaining support consists of those to blame for the crisis and those who FF are protecting from its effects...

In other words, in 2007 the electorate as a whole didn't vote for how the country is being run; many of those who voted FF in 2007 would not now with hindsight; our political system is chronically inadequate and no voter can change that at present.

If FF do well in the next GE then significant blame lies squarely at the electorate's feet (I may well leave the country if that happens). But until then let's hold FF and their allies to account.

Still, a lot people knew they were crooks but voted for them anyway. Because the Irish myth is that the country does better when it is led by crooks. That is the legacy of Charles J. Haughey and many were stupid enough to buy into it and ruin the rest of us, probably the majority.

How else do you explain the presence of Bertie Ahern, Beverly Flynn, Frank Fahy and Michael Lowry in the Dail? If Liam Lawlor had run, he would probably have topped the poll.

 

[pinemartin]

The ones that didn't vote are only slightly less culpable than the ones who voted ff/pd



Gulibility is no excuse.



No excuse for putting FF back in



Ignorance of the recent past is no excuse. Previous FF governments in the 70's 80's and 90's all provided plenty evidence of the threat FF posed.



Foresight wasn't required in 2007, or 2002 for that matter. Paying attention to the recent past should have been enough.



Even if the brand FF is damaged, watch the same calibre of politicians being elected under other labels.

correct.everyone who voted for or gave the ff a preference is partly responsible for the mess.Bertie was the tshock in waiting and we all knew his record on finances both personal and governmental. So if you voted for him you knew what you were getting. FF voters are culpable in this disaster.

 

[ifreannach]

The ones that didn't vote are only slightly less culpable than the ones who voted ff/pd

explain that twisted logic to me will you, I didnt vote, never voted and never will vote in the current system as it is the system that the english brought to us via a gun which was just copied and pasted to suit the so called gentry of modern ireland

I agree with the rest of your post though

 

[Gimpanzee]

explain that twisted logic to me will you, I didnt vote, never voted and never will vote in the current system as it is the system that the english brought to us via a gun which was just copied and pasted to suit the so called gentry of modern ireland

I agree with the rest of your post though

There are those that voted against the FF/PD's and there are those that didn't. You were one of them.

 

[ifreannach]

There are those that voted against the FF/PD's and there are those that didn't. You were one of them.

and you voted for the system as broken and corrupt as it is

 

[DJCB33]

FF/PD voters hopefully know at this stage that alot of blame rests at their door and hopefully they have learned the lesson not to be so stupid in future. I fear those who bought property with a view to a short term sale for huge profit in mind don't know how much fault lies at there door, its a massive amount in case you were wondering.

The cult is only as powerfull as the amount of dopes that drink the coolaid.

 

[bormotello]

If FF do well in the next GE then significant blame lies squarely at the electorate's feet (I may well leave the country if that happens).

If FF do well in the next GE then it will fault of opposition, who cannot offer any alternative to FF policies

 

[Harmonica]

People are generally stupid which is we will make the same mistakes in the future & we will have another property bubble eventually. While FF will get destroyed in the next GE I am sure people will go back to voting for them again.

 

[Odyessus]

FF/PD voters hopefully know at this stage that alot of blame rests at their door and hopefully they have learned the lesson not to be so stupid in future. I fear those who bought property with a view to a short term sale for huge profit in mind don't know how much fault lies at there door, its a massive amount in case you were wondering.

The cult is only as powerfull as the amount of dopes that drink the coolaid.

Of course FF must take responsibility for the economic mess we are in as they held the executive power and adopted the policies that have landed us here.

However, one has only to look at the manifestos of the opposition parties to see their policies would have been equally disastrous.

 

[Q-Tours]

Listen to the boyos (the female candidate seemed positively subdued the other night!) in the DSW bye-election blathering the same old 'Jobs for Here' stuff, promising a hospital in every parish and support for every rusting decrepit business there regardless of whether it can ever hope to pay its way.

The system's broke. It's the voters who broke it, and the Cute Hoors were only pandering to the customers' demands.

 

[cytex]

There are those that voted against the FF/PD's and there are those that didn't. You were one of them.

Im not understanding the logic here ..... I didnt vote either infact i spoiled my vote because quite frankly there is nobody to vote for in this country .

if fg were in power we would have had a similar melt down they were critising the gov for not spending enough. ff are a bunch of crooks as is there pd friends .

so i choose not to vote how excatly did this help to get ff in if i didnt want none of them in ....... ????

I fully belive it is not the electorates fault as the electorate was set up to fail no matter who they voted for .

 

[farnaby]

I fully belive it is not the electorates fault as the electorate was set up to fail no matter who they voted for .

Nicely put

 

[Gimpanzee]

Im not understanding the logic here ..... I didnt vote either infact i spoiled my vote because quite frankly there is nobody to vote for in this country .

if fg were in power we would have had a similar melt down they were critising the gov for not spending enough. ff are a bunch of crooks as is there pd friends .

so i choose not to vote how excatly did this help to get ff in if i didnt want none of them in ....... ????

I fully belive it is not the electorates fault as the electorate was set up to fail no matter who they voted for .

We got a FF because not enough people voted for other parties. You were partly to blame.

And you're worse than Iffreanach, because he doesn't cop out based on the quality of the candidates - something that you can change by standing for election, you do. You were nowhere to be seen when the worst government this country has seen could have been kept out of office.

 

[kerdasi amaq]

So, the professional politicians are not responsible for their actions and policies because they were elected into office.

Do any of you "blame the electorate" types sit in Dáil Éireann, by any chance?

 

[farnaby]

correct.everyone who voted for or gave the ff a preference is partly responsible for the mess.Bertie was the tshock in waiting and we all knew his record on finances both personal and governmental. So if you voted for him you knew what you were getting. FF voters are culpable in this disaster.

I accept that and many of the responses. But it's almost as if you want the blame and the pain to be spread thinly across the nation and the focus to shift from those who bear by far the most culpability.

Every blame-the-voters post is an encouragement to the government to say: we have a mandate; we as a nation are where we are; we're in this together. Blame-the-voter is a get out of jail free card in other words.

The message to them should be: you bear primary responsibility for this; you should pay first with loss of power, income and privileges; your friends in banking and property whose recklessness utterly destabilised the economy should be brought to account; then we will begin to accept the adjustments needed to bring us back from the brink.

 

[ifreannach]

We got a FF because not enough people voted for other parties. You were partly to blame.

And you're worse than Iffreanach, because he doesn't cop out based on the quality of the candidates - something that you can change by standing for election, you do. You were nowhere to be seen when the worst government this country has seen could have been kept out of office.

did you read my posts? nothing about the candidates or their lack of quality, it is the system, always has been the system, what do you think all the rebellions in this country were about?

you need to wake up and realise the system is the problem not necessarily anyone in it, just the stupid folk like george lee who thought he could change it by becoming part of it....lol

 

[Gimpanzee]

did you read my posts? nothing about the candidates or their lack of quality, it is the system, always has been the system, what do you think all the rebellions in this country were about?

you need to wake up and realise the system is the problem not necessarily anyone in it, just the stupid folk like george lee who thought he could change it by becoming part of it....lol

I did, and that's why I said it was at least an improvement on the 'they're all stew-pa' excuse for not voting. I think its batsh!t crazy all the same.

 

[Limestone]

The system is broken and needs fixing - no doubt about that. The system alone cannot, however explain the preponderance of poor TDs. The harsh reality is that despite the population's bank of intelligence, we tend to think in a parochial manner and we fall for false promises. Certainly, the system is heavily to blame for the parochial nonsense but us voters need to ask the candidates what they will do for Ireland when in office, not just what will you do for me. The media are somewhat to blame for the false promises because they often don't go to the trouble of looking behind them.